Author Topic: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???  (Read 35859 times)

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2017, 10:59:35 AM »
I am thinking 24.5 but I don't want to ruin the ride by being overweight. At 200 pounds I am outside of the manufacturer suggested weight range , but I might be disappointed 27 width. I am sure I would be comfortable balance wise on 24.5 , but don't to ruin the glide with my weight. From responses above it, maybe I would be ok on the 24.5. Anyone have thoughts on 2016 compared to 2017?? Also thoughts on the carbon versus hybrid??  Seems like the price difference might not be worth the small weight loss the cheaper one may be more durable.

Ride - what you say correlates to what most paddlers say upwind -> the AS is very stable and fast.  For flat speed the 25 was about the same speed as my Dom though.  The cutting boof does not slice as clean as the deep vee.  So do not expect the 24.5 or 25 to break any sprint records.  I could easily feel the drag vs the 23.  Fore aft balance is key.  The tail does sink and causes a ton of drag.

All around the 25 was a very nice board - but for me had too much volume.  For 2017 they added a bunch more volume in the 24.5 -> so would expect that board to be better suited for you vs the 2016.  If you are concerned more about durability get the Hybrid.  The carbon is a full on race board as they eliminated weight everywhere.  If not for a small crack from a paddle whack of a friend losing balance -> would say my AS23 is perfectly durable.  Mine looks the same as when I bought it ie. near brand new.

If I was 200 lbs - I would get the 2017 24.5.  Maybe outside the weight range - but it would be ok.  Can appreciate your concern about glide vs weight.  Every pound of extra weight does impact glide.  I put a young boy on my Dom - and basically felt like I was dragging a bucket behind me.  Get the 2017 24.5 - you will probs love it like these other guys that have one.  Best thing for you is you already know how stable the 25 is for you.  Big advantage vs speculation bs.  Firsthand knowledge is key.  ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 11:25:42 AM »
Thank you Eagle!

gzasinets - thank you for your very nice PM.  I really appreciate it when people send me thank you PMs after I post my experiences with my boards.  Kinda makes some of my posts worthwhile.  Haha.

The 23 is a very special animal.  It is kinda like a young bucking bronc that you need to break. But once you do - it really is a truly amazing board.  The triple concaves are the key design attribute.  Have not tested the 2017 - but those that have one seem to like it.  So obviously paddling both firsthand is your best option -> otherwise it will have to be a leap of faith.

proper is around 200 and he really likes his 24.5 - he found his Sprint 23 a tad too tippy for racing.  So you kinda have to gauge it from there.  Others about your weight also seem to like their 24.5s as well.  Not many have the 23.  The only other posting on here is a sponsored pro from Vancouver.  The 23 is a lot tippier -> so be aware.  If you want to challenge yourself - get the 23.  So really does depend on your own balance to weight ratio.  When I tried my 23 before buying - I could sprint on it.  So that sealed the deal for me.  Also I stayed dry.  That is always key for me.  Cheers.  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

gone_foiling

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 05:42:23 PM »
Thank you Eagle again!  :) I found an opportunity to demo as24.5 in the ocean and will make my decision based on how i feel on it in the ocean.
Addicted to foiling at the moment.
My shenanigans on insta @gone_foiling

Rideordie

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 08:02:41 PM »
Thanks for all of the great feedback and detailed reviews guys!!  Wow, Easy!!  You have Allstars in three different sizes!!  That is a testament to your love of the shape!!  Sounds like the consensus is for me to go for the 24.5.  I paddle mostly inland lakes and the occasional downbreezer, so probably would not need the extra stability of the 27, which would be slower on the flats.  I am thinking about the hybrid construction versus the much more expensive and fragile carbon.  Not that much difference in the weight.  I am not going to be chasing many podiums, but I do enjoy a nice glide and quick pace when out with my training partners.  My expectation is that this board will be a bit faster than my FX 14 Pro in most conditions.                   
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Off-Shore

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
    • HksupaHK SUP and Downwinding
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 11:04:31 PM »
Rideordie. I have the 2016 All Star 14 x 27" which I keep in Scotland (living in Hong Kong) as my all round board there and can say that it feels a lot more stable than the width suggests, and more stable than the 2017 Ace 14 x 27 I have here in Hong Kong. I'm 180lbs / 5'11" and a fairly experienced paddler. I also have paddled the 2017 14 x 24" Naish Maliko in downbreezer conditions and it was more stable than I expected. My thinking on width is that in my mid 50's I'm peaking in terms of balance, and that since I paddle a lot in the ocean and downwinding, where I will sometimes paddle for 2+ hours, that I'm looking for something that is stable after 2 hours paddling in cross-chop off-shore conditions when I am tired and wobbly, that will last me the next 5 years when I'll be approaching 60. So whilst I can paddle narrow 24" wide boards now, and paddle narrow fine on anything flat or for short periods of time, I need to be realistic about what will work all the time and in the future. I'm done with podium positions and being the fastest on the water. It's about finishing standing up and having fun!

I also agree about getting a more durable slightly more heavy construction unless you really care about weight (ie getting on roof of car or carrying long distances). It will last longer.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 11:07:37 PM by Off-Shore »
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

yugi

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2017, 02:59:14 AM »
Eagle,
Do I remember correctly that you initially didn’t find the Allstar 23 much faster than the 24.5(or25)? How do you feel about that now?

With getting settled on the board do you think that has upped your average speed?

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2017, 03:23:58 AM »
Eagle,
Do I remember correctly that you initially didn’t find the Allstar 23 much faster than the 24.5(or25)? How do you feel about that now?

With getting settled on the board do you think that has upped your average speed?

I've often wondered if there is a breaking point for a given paddler whereby the gains afforded by a reduced width are overcome by the paddlers mass being too much for the reduced board volume.

yugi

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2017, 04:03:38 AM »
^ tunnel testing would tell us that easily. Independent of the rider skills to stand up and concentrate on putting energy and focus into going forward of course.

I wonder if there isn't software that could simulate that. I bet there is somewhere.

BTW After the win of the 33rd America's Cup Alinghi's proposed 34th America's Cup race protocol, before Oracle hijacked it in the courts for a stupid error,  was for only one boat per team, eliminating the [expensive] two boat testing as 2 teams needed to be funded. Partly this was to reduce the huge costs for a team but also was for a lot of funding to go into computer simulations, which could then trickle down to the rest of the yachting world.

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2017, 04:52:37 AM »
^ tunnel testing would tell us that easily. Independent of the rider skills to stand up and concentrate on putting energy and focus into going forward of course.

I wonder if there isn't software that could simulate that. I bet there is somewhere.

BTW After the win of the 33rd America's Cup Alinghi's proposed 34th America's Cup race protocol, before Oracle hijacked it in the courts for a stupid error,  was for only one boat per team, eliminating the [expensive] two boat testing as 2 teams needed to be funded. Partly this was to reduce the huge costs for a team but also was for a lot of funding to go into computer simulations, which could then trickle down to the rest of the yachting world.

Simple field testing by the required paddler (and access to both boards) will tell you all you'd need to practically know. The problem with flume or tunnel testing is that it does not take into account that the paddlers is not static (thereby changing the pitch) and doesn't consider efficiency (a paddlers paddling efficiency may change when the board width is altered).

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2017, 08:58:33 AM »
yugi - never did a timed test 23 vs 25 -> just sprinted with both boards and concluded that the 25 felt quite a bit more sluggish than the 23.  As well did a head to head test with my friend who bought the 25 Eradicator from Luc.  We swapped boards on 2 sprint runs using the AS25 and the Think XOR.  Concluded that both those boards went about the same speed based on finishing distances as we both went full out over the same sprint course.  I was faster on both boards by about the same distance.  Basically the AS25 was the same speed even though 3 inches narrower.  I actually would have preferred to race the 28 Think over 5 miles as it just felt more efficient.  It has a deep vee and paddles better than my Dom - and is surfski inspired hollow.  Super nice.

I tested the AS23 a couple of times and the AS25 3x before buying the 23.  It was clear the 25 was too stable for me - with zero balance challenge - it felt only slightly less tippy than my Dom and about the same speed.  After getting the 23 - I tested that against my Dom over my 5 mile set course a few times.  First it was about 5% slower - then the same - then about 5% faster.

Since then have not bothered to GPS time as my results matched what I felt paddling the board.  The odd thing was that even though I felt tippy and was for sure wasting energy trying to balance - the 23 was the same speed as the Dom after my second speed test.  After that it has just gotten faster and faster with zero falls.  Now am completely settled on that board - and only use my other boards just to use them.  Like I mentioned before - all I really need as a quiver is the 23 and M14.  Would cover everything from flat ocean to crazy DW 100%.  And def yes my average speed is faster now on the 23.  Whereas the 25 and my Dom have a defined speed limit due to form drag -> the 23 does not have that sensation.  It feels that the more power you put down -> the faster it will simply go.  So that is why I say that board is an amazing board.  It is a fantastic design -> narrow yet stable -> with no set speed limit.   :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2017, 02:52:18 PM »
ukgm - one would suspect that SB and other brands pretty much know what will work before putting any new board width vs volume to the masses.  Apparently they tested 25 or so iterations of the AS as the design got refined down a couple of years ago.

There is a breaking point where reduced width is overcome by the paddlers mass being too much for the reduced board volume.  This is highlighted by the suggested rider weights for each board.  Apparently the AS25 was planned to be reduced down to 24.5 shortly after it went on the market in 2016.  Racers complained it was too wide and needed more speed.

But so far every board I have tried has excess volume for my weight.  So the answer as always comes down to the individual and their own balance to weight ratio.  Heavy -> gains will be def overcome.  Light -> gains not yet overcome by reduced volume.  The AS23 race board is designed for paddlers 50 to 80 kg - which is about right from my perspective.

yugi - thanks for your nice PM - appreciate that very much.  Would def get the Rail 26.5 and AS23 for sure based on what you noted.  The 23 will allow you to hop on the Rail so easy and handle that board in any conditions.  The balance gain you derive cannot be understood or explained unless you experience it firsthand.  You become a completely different paddler with smooth powerful confident efficient strokes - in perfect balance.  Simple because if are not -> you will fall off the board straight away.  Haha.  There is no option on that board if you want to go fast and efficient.  It is hands down the best balance and technique coach money can buy.  Get them both and you will understand.  Cheers.   :)

Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2017, 04:21:43 PM »
yugi - the 25 Rogue single option would be tough for me - as my concern would be falling off in festive conditions DW.  I like stability in nasty conditions - and even my Bullet 14V2 gets overwhelmed quite easily.  That is why the M14 is so appealing for me.  Easier to ride - so I can have more fun in steep waves.  My balance is really quite crappy compared to sponsored pros.

But would expect the Rogue to go ok otherwise though.  My pay grade is nothing like NH's.  Would expect he could take that 25 Rogue on a DW run easy -> as I have seen him firsthand pull away from me like a shot on his custom 25 Eradicator now owned by my friend.  It was startling and so very humbling to see him literally hop on his board and sprint away into the steep waves.  Was quite a sight to be seen.  And only saw him for a few minutes.  Haha.

I have paddled the 25 Eradicator though and really liked that board.  Am very surprised Luc gave up that ride after he spent money putting in the LA quads.  Maybe he can chime in.  But that board felt very solid and stable for a 25 sponsored rider's race board.  That is a very nice fast 25 option -> that can go well DW super fast if you have the balance and skill set.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

greatdane

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1443
    • View Profile
    • Paddle Surf Northwest
    • Email
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2017, 05:22:19 PM »
Can anyone provide an unbiased review on the 2017 Allstar?  I am thinking about buying one. I am 200 pounds with good balance. I know I can ride the 24.5, but should I go with the 27 for better hydrodynamics?
I weigh 192-195 and the 24.5" X 14' floats me just fine… If you want to do any flat water races, I think the 27" wide would feel like a pig.  Wish I could say I had the skills for the 23", but my weight and balance probably would have me swimming in sporty conditions. The 2017 AS feels faster and a bit quieter through the flats than my 2016.  They did something under the nose that makes it a bit less splashy.  Still, not a missile in the glass compared to something knifier like a Sprint, but feels so good in the chop.  Haven't got it out in a good down winder yet, but looking forward to it. 
Kialoa Paddles
Fibre Glas Fin Co
OnIt! Pro
Monster And Sea Clothing

Rideordie

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2017, 08:49:00 PM »
GreatDane, thanks for the vote of confidence. You are pretty close to my weight. It is interesting hearing the comparison of the 25 to the 24.5. I can hardly believe that there is so little weight difference between the two constructions. I think it is time for me to go test one and pull the trigger.  Thanks to all for the help!!
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

mr_proper

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
    • View Profile
Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2017, 10:25:27 PM »
There is a breaking point where reduced width is overcome by the paddlers mass being too much for the reduced board volume.  This is highlighted by the suggested rider weights for each board.

I don't believe the information about the riders weight really is correct.
The 2015 Sprint 14x23 has a recommend riders weight of 85kg.
The 2016 Sprint 14x23 with the identical shape has a recommend riders weight of 95kg.
The 2017 Sprint 14x23 has has a recommend riders weight of 95kg.
The 2017 Allstar 14x24.5 with much more volume than the Sprint has a recommend riders weight of 85kg.
The Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, also with less volume than the 2017 Allstar has a recommend riders weight up to 95kg.

I am not an expert and it seems to me illogical but maybe there is an explanation for this.
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal