What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[PonoBill]

I don't know of any way to relate the spending of controlled economies to democratic nations. The 600 billion in American spending includes tons of pork, tons of jobs, tons of profit, R&D only peripherally related to defense. If some Chinese or Russian defense company CEO pulled any of the shenanigans that American defense CEOs pull, there would be a bullet waiting for them. I'm sure corruption accounts for a chunk of the Russian Federation's 4.9%, probably a lot less in China's 1.9 percent/215 Billion. In fact, considering China's multipliers, I suspect China's expenditures are on a par or might even exceed the USA budget. China can use parts with Alibaba pricing. The USA can't.

[yugi]

I guess Trump pulling the US out of the Paris accords was predictable. I'm still disgusted.

Somewhat relieved that all the other nations stand by it. It might actually invigorate clean power development.

China has just made leaps and bounds in terms of image while USA has shamed itself. This has suddenly made buying something Made in China a whole lot more palatable. Don't you think people will shift buying patterns? Don't you  wonder if there will be an economic impact?

I saw what the governor of California had to say and that Elon Musk quit his white house position. Lifted my spirits. I'll gladly seek out "made in California" when purchasing something.

[Bean]

No surprise, since he said he would during his campaign.  He believes that the Paris accord is a bad economic deal for the US.  But, most Americans would have wished to stay in and they might still get their wish.  In the mandatory cooling-off period, the US will likely renegotiate the economics of the deal; we'll have to see.  And yes, great to see so many nations coming together on this.

[SUP Sports ®]

I guess Trump pulling the US out of the Paris accords was predictable. I'm still disgusted.

Somewhat relieved that all the other nations stand by it. It might actually invigorate clean power development.

China has just made leaps and bounds in terms of image while USA has shamed itself. This has suddenly made buying something Made in China a whole lot more palatable. Don't you think people will shift buying patterns? Don't you  wonder if there will be an economic impact?

This is just really, really, stupid...spiteful...baffling...perplexing...disgusting...outrageous...all of those things...
No matter what your political, or religious, affiliations are...you cannot deny the fact that clean water and clean air...are fundamental to the quality of life of all humans on this planet...

So ironic that the mayor of Pittsburgh, Bill Peduto,  gave Trump a media beat down after Trump explained that his choice to withdraw the US from the Paris climate agreement was because:

"I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris."

On Twitter after Trump's speech, Peduto pushed back against the President invoking Pittsburgh.
"The United States joins Syria, Nicaragua & Russia in deciding not to participate with world's Paris Agreement. It's now up to cities to lead," Peduto tweeted.

"The city of Pittsburg voted for Hillary Clinton with nearly 80% of the vote," Peduto said. "He may be talking about all of western Pennsylvania, but it's a far cry from being Pittsburg."

Pittsburgh mayor, Bill Peduto told CNN affiliate WPXI he was "outraged" at Trump's line.
"Pittsburgh is the example," Peduto said. "We were that city that China is like today where the smoke was so, filled the air so much, that the streetlights would stay on 24 hours."
Peduto told CNN he would issue an executive order Friday pledging Pittsburgh would follow through on carbon reduction goals.

It's up to cities -- not the federal government -- to ensure carbon emission guidelines are being followed, according to the mayor.
"In cities across America, you'll see mayors standing up and saying, 'we got this,' " he told AC 360.

When host Anderson Cooper asked him whether he has a message for the President, the mayor said: "What you did was not only bad for the economy of this country, but also weakened America in this world."

I saw what the governor of California had to say and that Elon Musk quit his white house position. Lifted my spirits. I'll gladly seek out "made in California" when purchasing something.

We've been making a big effort towards producing "Made in California" SUPs...long before Trump became king...;-)

http://supsports.com/standup-paddle-boards/california-custom-series/

[PonoBill]

There's no question that the Paris accords are fundamentally flawed. But to some degree it's the fault of the USA for sending knuckleheads to negotiate critical agreements. It was probably necessary to exclude developing countries from measures that hamper their growth, but there needs to be a much steeper ramp up as the developing economies grew. China is now the world's biggest greenhouse gas producer, and they are not required to do anything until 2030. As it sits, the accords were economic warfare against the US, but walking away from the table completely is not a useful negotiating technique. "Fix this and we'll talk" makes a lot more sense. But as the agreements stood, not only could no serious progress be made against climate change with China and India doing nothing, but the developed nations economies would stall, preventing market forces from driving change and making it strictly a mandate.

Easy for China to act like a world leader when they don't have to do anything to play.

[PonoBill]

There is a "cooling off period" which might be part of the negotiation. If so it's a stupid ploy. If he backs off now because of concessions it will just look like he's bowing to pressure.

The swamp he's draining stands a good chance of being every sitting republican that supports him.

[yugi]

^ yep. About 4 years.

His speech was mostly nonsense. [as usual] It doesn't work like that.

Happy to see so many states stepping up to do the right thing.

<fingers crossed he doesn't start WW3 and manage to con his way to stay in power>

[SUP Sports ®]

Since the day after the 2020 presidential election is the day the decision could take effect...the timing will fortuitously force a more serious debate on environmental issues...which could end up being a good thing...

Regardless of Trump's bluster...and, his ongoing environmental vandalism, the trend of coal mine closures will continue...which will erode his base...unless, he steps up and bails them out with his and/or our money...;-)

Of course, that's assuming he is still around as ruling king in 2020...I personally think that he doesn't really want the job anymore...hard to blame him...and, it would fit his personality to commandeer a lifeboat to jump off of the ship before it capsizes...or, he loses...;-)

[digger71]

Agree the accords are flawed, but the commitments are voluntary and not binding.  We are not required to do anything.
 If DT doesn't like our commitment he can change it.  If this is his negotiation style I just don't get it.

China is now the world's biggest greenhouse gas producer, and they are not required to do anything until 2030.

And you know this isn't true.  Yes they commit to reaching a peak of CO2 emmissions by 2030, but there is a lot of work to slow that train. And it appears they are going for an under-promise and over-deliver model.

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html

[yugi]

 I
 V

[SUP Sports ®]

If Donald Trump wasn't born with LSS (Lucky Sperm Syndrome)...but, was a surfer bro instead...frickin' hilarious...;-)

[SUP Leave]

Interesting replies here. Trump is definitely good at keeping the world talking. Last week "Russia, Russia, Russia" this week "Paris, Paris, Paris". The Paris accord was just a global coctktail party while their clerks stapled together the "Accord". Every country got to set their own goals, but there is no carrot or stick involved. Optically it makes the US look bad to pull out and the left is all over it, the reality on the Polar bear end of things is nothing.

Obama et. al set really hard emissions goals for the US - great for us. Looked good at the time of the meeting. China set goals that were easy. Like me or you saying "I'm going to save $200 dollars a month" knowing that we were getting a $1,200 a month raise. So predictably China is going to ride the good news cycle. They are no longer a developing country and so their reliance on fossil fuels will decrease, just like ours.

PonoBill points out brilliantly in the WW3 thread, that emissions reductions are happening quickly through technology. Coal is becoming an outlier every day, so much that IMO the voting base from coal country will not even be a factor in 2020.

The Pittsburgh mayor is correct in a lot of ways. They have cleaned up their water ways and air over the last 40 years. They can enact even stricter emissions standards than the EPA requires if they want. However, scare away a major employer through onerous new regulations and see how the next election cycle goes. The truth is the Mayor is only yapping to look good. No one is going to change their regulations due to the US pulling out of some silly paper shuffle.

[mjb1959]

former pres obama said in response to the withdrawal from paris that...
" I’m confident that our states, cities, and businesses will step up and do even more to lead the way"

to a right leaner this drips with irony.
the whole idea of america is that the states are the democratic laboratories,
so our country is supposed to work exactly that way... get it?
not washington ruling iron fisted, but at a more granular level, the citizens finding the right way on their own.

[lucabrasi]

So ironic that the mayor of Pittsburgh, Bill Peduto,  gave Trump a media beat down after Trump explained that his choice to withdraw the US from the Paris climate agreement was because:

"I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris."

On Twitter after Trump's speech, Peduto pushed back against the President invoking Pittsburgh.
"The United States joins Syria, Nicaragua & Russia in deciding not to participate with world's Paris Agreement. It's now up to cities to lead," Peduto tweeted.

hahahahaha.
I didn't watch the video or see any news on that but.....good on him.

I have lost interest to try and sort things out over the last month or so (longer days anything to do with that?  hmmmm) and other than seeming to be full of smoke and mirrors I don't really know enough about the Paris deal to have a real opinion nor enough interest to figure out which big businesses are happy and which ones are not. Plenty on both sides. Is Jerry still gov there in Cali? I kinda wonder what he had to say if nothing else I guess.

If Donald Trump wasn't born with LSS (Lucky Sperm Syndrome)...but, was a surfer bro instead...frickin' hilarious...;-)

hahahahahahaha.




 

[PonoBill]

This entire situation is so strange. The Paris accords are almost meaningless. Reminds me of the old West Wing TV drama where everyone on the team would work their asses off in some crisis, succeed, and then be so smugly happy when to any sane person the "victory" was some pointless paper shuffle. There's a reason all those other countries signed on to the agreement--because they don't have to do anything. Trump can't possibly have a real reason for exiting--it has to be a purely political calculation. I don't get it, but then, I don't get many of the things that the "right" does these days. I understand and appreciate conservative policy, but I don't get any of this mishmash.