Author Topic: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing  (Read 6506 times)

Night Wing

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SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« on: October 31, 2016, 08:03:56 AM »
I went down to Galveston, Tx this past Saturday since the forecast for waves was very good for consistency since they were easily seen sets. Nice long horizontally waves with sets almost a duplicate behind the first set. The waves weren't large in height since they were about waist high, but they gave me a nice glide when riding them. Easy to turn back onto the wave like climbing a small step. The fin setup are in the following paragraphs below.

I wanted to compare again the 4 fin setup ( Two, 5", Two, 4") against a 5 fin setup (Two, 5" Two, 4" One, 2.25") against my previous two sessions with waves were were not very uniform. Surfing my custom all carbon built Hammer 8'11"x31"x4" @ 140 liters, my first two sessions favored the 4 fin setup. This time I surfed my Hammer using these two fin configurations for 1 1/2 hour sessions for each fin setup (a combined total of 3 hours surfing). Again I'm 5'8" tall weighing 145 pounds. My Hammer weighs (with pad) a little over 17 pounds and my Werner all carbon adjustable Trance 85 paddle weighs about 27 ounces. Keep in mind my Hammer has a chisel tail which is 8" long at the end of the tail measured in a straight line horizontally.

The time before I went to Galveston, I favored the 4 fin setup. However this time around, I favored the 5 fin setup. It seems in this session using both fin setups, I found the 5 fin setup seemed to give my Hammer more "drive" when turning back onto the wave so as to not lose speed which seemed to let me climb back onto wave near it's apex height. It seems the 4 fin setup felt a little "skatey" on the turn like it wanted to slip out. I also must say my rails are thinned out from the production made Hammers which are 4.4" thick. Maybe my technique is getting better and this is why I favored the 5 fin setup or maybe the better wave consistency has something to do with it or a combination of both. I really don't know and don't care since I had a lot of fun with this experimentation. Experimentation just lets me keep on learning.

On a side note. Since the 5 fin setup is my favorite for surfing (as of now), as an added bonus, the 5 fin setup is also my favorite fin configuration for my flat water sup paddling as well.

Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Badger

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 08:28:30 AM »
I don't think that's really considered a five fin set up. It's more like a Quad with what's commonly called a Knubster. I think the FCS Knubster was the first fin of this type.

I have the same little War Dog fin that you have. I also tried the FCS Knubster and The Middle Finger from Futures. I tried them extensively on a bunch of different boards. I never noticed any advantage in how the boards performed so I went back to just straight quad.

I do go back and forth between quad and thruster a lot depending on the type of waves, but gave up on Knubsters.

Aside from Knubsters, I don't think many people actually use five fins.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 09:00:01 AM by Badger »
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southwesterly

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 01:17:26 PM »
 I have been going back and forth between a quad set up with and without a nubster. There is a difference, especially with the wide tail of the Hammer and other fatty shapes.

With the nubster there is a bit more drive down the line and a more solid feel to bottom turns. I am currently in a “without the nubster” phase. I like that it feels a tad looser, which I like in a big board.

OUTSIDEWAVE

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2016, 03:56:21 PM »
Long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Used to the turbo tunnels 7 inch fins  cut them down to fit side boxes,and surf the board as a twin fin ( yeah twin turbos) sometimes I would take this little  center fin that I had cut down to about  2 inches in height  shaped it like a  regular swept back fin,  and  put it th main box.   the twin was pretty loose    and  with the little ittybitty center fin  helped to feel more direct.
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mrbig

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 06:45:31 PM »
When I bought my JP slate I struggled with fins. Thruster too stiff, quad too skatey. There was a lively discussion on seabreeze and a JP bloke suggested trying 5 fins, all the same size and flat foils except for the center. Worked a treat 🍨!

Recently acquired a King's Punisher which is a square type board with a wide tail, single wing square actually.

Old story, but true - thruster too stiff, quad skatey. I remembered what worked before.
 
Five small AMT fins. Boom. The no cant no toe setup on the JP was a wild card. However, Dave  Daum's personal Punisher had way more toe in his leading boxes.

The AMT FCS II work in one foot junk, and LARGE Hurricane swells. All five of 'em!!
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RATbeachrider

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 08:06:14 PM »
With the right bottom concaves and tail, a Bonzer 5 could be the next ripper SUP.

Badger

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 03:25:47 AM »
With the right bottom concaves and tail, a Bonzer 5 could be the next ripper SUP.

Bonzer 5 looks rad. Quad with a big center. I guess that makes it a 4 + 1 set up.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bonzer+5+sup&hl=en&biw=939&bih=586&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRgZiVqYfQAhVBLyYKHXWuA4YQ_AUIBygC


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mrbig

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 04:21:26 PM »
Or you could try the wild and crazy Aussie DARC knubbie! Works a treat with the controller type FCS II's.

Bonzers with a DARC. Whoo haaa! Damn, might look for bonzers.  Got shacked on my buddy Drew's bonzer 30 years ago. Four-Mile in Wellfleet.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 04:23:23 PM by mrbig »
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Night Wing

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 07:58:11 PM »
@mrbig

Your 5 fin (quad + 1) is similar to mine. My 2.25" nubster fin is noticeably shaped different and larger.

I wish I could get the hang of posting photos on this site, but they just don't cooperate for me very well.
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Badger

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2016, 01:27:16 AM »

I'd call that a quad + nubster.

The board has a five fin configuration.

A thruster set up has three more or less equal sized fins.

A 2+1 is two side bites with a big center fin.

A quad is four fins, usually with the rears slightly smaller.

A five fin would be five more or less equal sized fins.

Quad + 1 or 4+1 would be a quad or four side bites with a big center fin. I made that one up in an earlier post on another thread. I've never heard anyone use the term.




« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 01:51:02 AM by Badger »
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surfcowboy

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2016, 10:10:06 AM »
One question, have you played with 3 and/or even 2 fins in smaller conditions? If you have some larger side bites you may like a sort of reverse 2+1. Fins are crazy, you never know. Cool that you're experimenting.

As to flat water, that's weird that you like more fins for that. Do you have one large center fin for that board? If not, try to borrow or get a cheap one to test. The reduced drag should be noticeable unless those are set with zero toe. (Anyone know?"

I am a big fan of the one board quiver. I'm really hoping my next board fulfills that in the way my Coreban did. Cool that you have such a versatile stick.

mrbig

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2016, 11:44:53 AM »
surfcowboy,
Not sure if you mean me, but I have experimented with a huge MR FCS II twin fin set, with and without a trailer.

Works well in smaller waves  in RI.

Had a serious spin out once in the CC juice. Kinda like an MC crash high side.

I prefer it with the trailer, both for paddling in a straight line, and no wobbles.

Of course MR had no issues on his 5'8" twinnie at Sunset!
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SMIK 8'4" Hipster Twin
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Night Wing

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2016, 05:31:43 PM »
One question, have you played with 3 and/or even 2 fins in smaller conditions? If you have some larger side bites you may like a sort of reverse 2+1. Fins are crazy, you never know. Cool that you're experimenting.

As to flat water, that's weird that you like more fins for that. Do you have one large center fin for that board? If not, try to borrow or get a cheap one to test. The reduced drag should be noticeable unless those are set with zero toe. (Anyone know?"

I am a big fan of the one board quiver. I'm really hoping my next board fulfills that in the way my Coreban did. Cool that you have such a versatile stick.

If you mean me, my 5 fin setup (right now) is the same for both flat water and surfing (two 5", two 4" and one 2.25" nubster). There are lot of factors involved which would most likely be different if this configuration was used by someone else.

Examples. My Werner Trance 85 all carbon adjustable paddle. My Hammer is 8"11"x31"x4" @ 140 liters. I'm 5'8" tall with 34" arm length and weigh 145 pounds. Right now, my adjustable length paddle is set at 80.5" but I'm experimenting with 81.5" because of my 34" arm length. The rails for my Hammer were thinned out per my request. I'm still a novice at sup surfing so my skill level isn't the best compared with someone who has been sup surfing for years. Placement of my feet on the board may be different than someone else who might be taller and I'm guessing it would be. I've seen people a few inches taller than me who weigh considerably more than me, but have shorter arm lengths in the 32" length. They have a broader chest area than I do, but I've got longer arms.

Incidentally, I do have a 6th fin. It is a 8.75" fin which I use as a 2 +1 thruster setup with two, 5" fins. It works for both flat water and surfing, but I prefer the 5 fin setup I use for both flat water and surfing. I'm just an "oddball" who like to think outside of the box and this why I Iike experimentation. If it works for me, that is all that matters.
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

Badger

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2016, 05:48:12 PM »


Using more than one fin on a surf sup for flatwater is just going to create drag.

A single large center fin will track better and cut through the water more efficiently.
Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
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Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

dietlin

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Re: SUP Sports Hammer: 4 Fin Versus 5 Fin for Surfing
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2016, 08:46:48 PM »
A board that is actually designed to be ridden with five fins.

 


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