Bouf vs Slice (Ace vs Bullet) Downwinding

[Off-Shore]

So, I managed to get the 2017 Starboard Ace 14' x 27" out on the South Lamma run yesterday along with a friend on her 2016 SIC Bullet 14v2 and we swapped boards in the last 1/4 of the run so I could feel the difference.  Here are a couple of pics and initial impressions

It took a while to get used to the constraints of the bird bath of the Ace, and to get to learn it's unique feeling, but here are my takeaways

1. The bouf! I used to have a Starboard Coast Runner which was my first 14' and my first hard board after an iSUP, and so I should be used to the bouf effect, but man was it spectacular. This was my first downwind run on the Ace, and so I was a little heavy footed and it took a while to get balanced and into surf stance. Let's just say there was a lot of boufing going on, which I got semi under control by the end of the run when conditions strengthened. Jumping on the Bullet at the end, I just could not get it to bouf at all.. Just sliced and diced its way through.

2. To link glides in these off-shore conditions on the Ace meant a lot of walking around.. Walking is the wrong word, because you need to dance to link properly and keep the speed up. And the board moves fast, and I think for me it seemed to have a more constant speed as long as you did the bird bath dance. The Bullet on the other hand, feels way more stable and majestic. That is perhaps because I am more used to it, but the deck without sides felt enormous after the constraints of the bird bath. It seems more tolerant and less jumpy than the Ace

3. Getting into/onto the Ace after falling is way more harder than the SIC due to the high sides that need to be surmounted. If like me, you have PLBs and other gear in chest pockets of your hydration vest this makes it more difficult. I am sure I will get the hang of it, but I can see if I was tired in rough ocean conditions or I was cold this could present issues

Downwinding the Ace though is definitely a new (and technical) experience compared to the SIC F16, and SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC I have, and something I am going to enjoy mastering. I did buy the Ace as my everyday board for upwind / downwind circuits and general fitness and it is a great board for this. For big downwind days out in the ocean, I'll probably stick to the SICs until I figure out how to get back onto the Ace quickly.

Was it fun? YES IT WAS A LOT OF FUN..

[yugi]

When you go with a friend you ride often with and switch boards you quickly get a sense of which board is faster. So?

Most people I see on, sorry, in Ace-like flower pots, tend to go straight w the flow. Pretty much exclusively. Thus boof a lot thus need the boof nose. I’ve tried slithery boards, like Fanatic. I’m nowhere near carving turns on them. I didn’t know one could turn them tight until I saw Clement Colmas.

[coldsup]

Will call you Sir Bouf!

Our DW has been a bit non existent for a good while lately because we are all surfing or injured with one thing or another. I did manage to get the Allstar x27 out a couple of times on downbreezers.....I just didn't like them half as much as my M14. Just a different feeling and I guess like any board you need to get used to them. But I know which I prefer on DW that's for sure.

[coldsup]

Will call you Sir Bouf!

Our DW has been a bit non existent for a good while lately because we are all surfing or injured with one thing or another. I did manage to get the Allstar x27 out a couple of times on downbreezers.....I just didn't like them half as much as my M14. Just a different feeling and I guess like any board you need to get used to them. But I know which I prefer on DW that's for sure. I would never buy a board with the bath tub deck.....I need a clear deck and no obstructions for moving about on or getting back on.....but that's preference and ability too.

[Eagle]

Will call you Sir Bouf!

Our DW has been a bit non existent for a good while lately because we are all surfing or injured with one thing or another. I did manage to get the Allstar x27 out a couple of times on downbreezers.....I just didn't like them half as much as my M14. Just a different feeling and I guess like any board you need to get used to them. But I know which I prefer on DW that's for sure. I would never buy a board with the bath tub deck.....I need a clear deck and no obstructions for moving about on or getting back on.....but that's preference and ability too.

Yeah - the Ace is a very specific animal.  The cutting boof on the AS23 is much more flat water oriented as it will pearl if you stay forward on a DW run.  You must get back to surf - but have not gotten that board to really plane yet.  It glides really well though if in proper fore aft trim.

The majestic feel of the Bullet 14V2 is really noticeable when you compare boards one after the other.  To me that board just crushes dices and slices small waves like no other.  And the M-14 that coldsup refers to - really wants more wind and bigger waves - to pummel and manhandle.

But all those boards are fun.  Just different.  Variety is the spice of life and really keeps it interesting.  Good to see you having fun and liking your new board OS!   

[Area 10]

If you are in the mood for a challenge, the Ace is fun DW up to about 25 knots and fairly well-groomed knee-high bumps. Anything more serious than that, or if you just want to relax and enjoy yourself, then leave the bird bath at home IMO. You generally have far less control on boof boards and while this can be exhilarating in small stuff - and indeed be more fun than on a heavily-rockered planing nose board - it just gets plain alarming and dangerous in serious conditions. And then there's the difficulty of quartering wind and swell...

But they are absolutely superb DW training boards for 15-20 knots. They are such hard work compared to eg. a Bullet (and catch tiny bumps much easier) that even just an hour in fairly mild stuff can make you feel like you've just done the M2O.

But I'm talking about the 25" wide Ace (or narrower). Maybe the 27" wide one is much easier. Which Ace do you have, Offshore?

[JonathanC]

I've been downwinding Ace boards for quite a few years now, and recognize all the sentiments above, I believe that the trick to downwinding joy on the Ace is to minimize the 'boof', it was actually paddling a Surfski that really got that through my head. Initially in a 20 foot boat the nose is constantly knifing into the wave in front, or even ploughing right in, then stalling, filling up with water etc etc etc!
The trick imo is to stay super high on the wave, both the Ace and most Surfski's are actually already on the wave before you think they are, stop paddling super early.
The beauty of the Ace is that you can steer it so easily with foot pressure from the regular paddling position, weight on the left foot, it turns right, effortless and very
controllable. Cranking across the face of a downwind wave on an Ace is fantastic.
The Ace is a very different board to downwind compared to something like an SIC 14, it takes a long time to get the hang of and work out how to steer it and surf it.
The ability to easily change direction and stay on the wave and link small runners is amazing, much more intuitive to me than using a rudder, I own a 17 Bullet and before that had an F14 and an F16 all with rudders, so I have plenty of rudder downwind experience. In much more than 25knots I would rather be on a more traditional shape.
Sure you can simply go straight and boof and still go fast and enjoy it, but honestly that's a bit like someone trying to explain the Mona Lisa over the phone.

[PonoBill]

My Blackfish was grim for the first few runs, but then I learned to do what Jonathan is talking about--don't use it like an SIC, hang back on the top of the wave and do your steering with the tail light. Changing fins helped a lot too. A squirrel (well actually Larry Allison's version of the squirrel--style) shoved well forward transformed the steering. Before that I was a passenger--point and shoot.

I can't say that I like it for downwinding--it's a different thing, and that's fine. I'm more comfortable on either my 17' Bullet or my 12'2" Starboard surfboard. But it's fun.

[Off-Shore]

Thank you, Jonathan C, Area 10 and Eagle for your tips. As Pono says here, on this first outing I was definitely a passenger on this, and only at the end was I able to relax and start to properly organise and execute downwind links (vid coming soon). I totally get staying higher up on the wave and not barrelling down it into the back of the other. This will take some time. We also did a 2nd run later on this day on what we call the Lamma Power Station run which is in off-shore winds and so starts off flat and builds up, but my GP battery had died by that time. There it was easy to be in surf stance and fine tune the position to stay higher up the waves.

Regarding fins, I kept the stock fin in to begin with, but when I was in Oz, I picked up a VMG fin (see below) which I'm reliably informed will make the Ace more lively downwinding, and I'll swap this out the next time I go out in the boat downwinding. So do half the run with the stock fin, and then the other half with the VMG one I've never messed around with fins, so I'm looking forward to feeling the difference.

So Yugi, which is faster? Too hard to tell at this moment. I fell off the back of the Ace a couple of times when the acceleration caught me by surprise, and then did exactly the same on the Bullet. I think with the right technique the Ace will win. It seems easier to keep up a higher speed, and to power though those flattened linked areas between waves than the Bullet. If you look at the downwind races in Oz, you will see the Ace is a favourite in the 14' class.. So my guess is when I get this dialled in it will be faster... What I can tell you now is that I can easily sustain 8.5kph / 5.28mph in flat water on the Ace which I would have a hard time doing on the Bullet.

Coming from a windsurfing background I am way more attuned to the surfy feel of the F16 and Bullet and feel really comfortable on both when conditions get hairy / blowy.. The Ace, as has been pointed out above, is very different to this but in the right hands / legs, is a downwind machine..

Area 10. The Ace I have is 27" wide

[Argosi]

I've been downwinding Ace boards for quite a few years now, and recognize all the sentiments above, I believe that the trick to downwinding joy on the Ace is to minimize the 'boof', it was actually paddling a Surfski that really got that through my head. Initially in a 20 foot boat the nose is constantly knifing into the wave in front, or even ploughing right in, then stalling, filling up with water etc etc etc!
The trick imo is to stay super high on the wave, both the Ace and most Surfski's are actually already on the wave before you think they are, stop paddling super early.
The beauty of the Ace is that you can steer it so easily with foot pressure from the regular paddling position, weight on the left foot, it turns right, effortless and very
controllable. Cranking across the face of a downwind wave on an Ace is fantastic.
The Ace is a very different board to downwind compared to something like an SIC 14, it takes a long time to get the hang of and work out how to steer it and surf it.
The ability to easily change direction and stay on the wave and link small runners is amazing, much more intuitive to me than using a rudder, I own a 17 Bullet and before that had an F14 and an F16 all with rudders, so I have plenty of rudder downwind experience. In much more than 25knots I would rather be on a more traditional shape.
Sure you can simply go straight and boof and still go fast and enjoy it, but honestly that's a bit like someone trying to explain the Mona Lisa over the phone.

I steer my Ace  using foot pressure on the opposite rail as well. I've seen videos of expert riders carving the Ace like a surf board though. I've not tried that and don't have the surfing skills either. However, I was wondering how hard it would be to learn to carve the Ace on the face of a downwind bump. What's your take on this? How good of a surfer do you have to be before being able to do this?

Maybe people like me, with little surfing experience, are better off using opposite foot steering with the Ace.

I'd guess that downwinding the Ace like Clement or Ryan below would be beyond most of us. Beau O'Brien's example seems much more realistic:

Clement Colmas surfing the Ace (amazing!):


Ryan Keck surfing the Ace (also amazing):


Beau O'Brien downwinding the Ace in a more realistic way that I would expect:

[Argosi]

Offshore, be patient with the Ace. It'll take quite a few downwind sessions before you get comfortable on it. Once you're comfortable moving back and forth on the board, you'll do a lot less boofing and maintain your speed a lot better. It'll also make the downwind experience a lot more pleasant as you won't be worried about getting thrown forward when you plow into a bump at high speed.

One technique I use when I'm about to boof is to get down on one knee before it happens.

You can also use the opposite foot steering that JonathanC described to smooth out the ride over the bumps.

The Ace catches bumps so well that the subtle technique of leaning forward and bending your knees to catch marginal bumps, works much better for me on the Ace than on other boards.

Once you're used to it. I'm betting it'll be the fastest downwind board you've ever tried in 25 knots or less. It certainly is for me. Nothing catches bumps and glides quite like the Ace in those conditions.

[Eagle]

Thank you, Jonathan C, Area 10 and Eagle for your tips. As Pono says here, on this first outing I was definitely a passenger on this, and only at the end was I able to relax and start to properly organise and execute downwind links (vid coming soon). I totally get staying higher up on the wave and not barrelling down it into the back of the other. This will take some time. We also did a 2nd run later on this day on what we call the Lamma Power Station run which is in off-shore winds and so starts off flat and builds up, but my GP battery had died by that time. There it was easy to be in surf stance and fine tune the position to stay higher up the waves.

What I can tell you now is that I can easily sustain 8.5kph / 5.28mph in flat water on the Ace which I would have a hard time doing on the Bullet.

Coming from a windsurfing background I am way more attuned to the surfy feel of the F16 and Bullet and feel really comfortable on both when conditions get hairy / blowy.. The Ace, as has been pointed out above, is very different to this but in the right hands / legs, is a downwind machine.

At least on my SB Touring pintail - I move back off the deck pad into surf stance so the tail digs cleanly into the wave.  I am able to surf it down and across the wave face similar to Clement - but with a lot less flow and ease getting back.  I am a lot less proficient and comfortable - but am able to do it.  So would suspect you Ace owners will be able to as well.  Staying high and angling is key to avoid a big boof splash.

But I do not opposite rail steer on any of my boards.  I rather use my paddle and weighted stance to control direction.  And I virtually never brace - though many do on DW runs.  I find more speed is better than slowing - so I can get up to the next wave ahead as soon as possible.  If you watch Clement - he is almost always hammering forward to get the next wave ahead.  My forward paddle stroke basically is my brace in some ways.  But I guess everyone has their own technique - and that is perfectly ok.

For sure Clement could ride a Bullet 14V2 with his eyes closed - and drink a beer at the same time.  His skill level is clear.  That surf nosed board is much easier than any board with a pintail on a DW run.  It is quite a bit more forgiving.  On a Bullet - Clement would probably never need to use any body english to balance like he does on the Ace.  The stability of the Bullet makes most DW runs quite easy comparatively.  But yes a big splash on the boof Ace really slows you down and can throw you right forward.   

[Area 10]

There really isn't any need to boof the Ace's nose at all. You've cocked up if you do. It's not hard to avoid it. Much harder is to stay upright in confused and steep waters. And not banging your shins or other parts of your body on the upper rails of the dugout. And climbing back in in big seas safely while holding into your paddłe.

The Ace actually surfs surprisingly well. But if you fill the dugout with water you won't be fast for a while - if you were in a race it might be game over as far as the podium is concerned. So, overall the Ace is a remarkable board, and is a real delight for serious racers, with high rewards and equally high penalties.

If the Ace's downsides prove too much, the Mistral Equinox gives pretty much all the Ace advantages (except surfing) but in a more user-friendly and tolerant package.

The Sidewinder is a little faster than the Ace in flat water, and is massively more stable and easier to handle. But it doesn't downwind as well. The Vapor is slower than the Ace in flat water and not quite as fast in tiny stuff downwind - although it's pretty close -but is more stable than any of those mentioned above and is faster than the SIC Bullets in smaller downwind stuff.

[Eagle]

Granted my 30 Touring is a lot fatter midships than a 27 or 25 or 23.5 - so that helps me a ton and is a big advantage.  But the nose on the Touring is about as pointy on plan as my Dom.  So much different than the fat Ace boof.  But have paddled an Ace and found the board really fast upwind as the boof skims easily over the chop.  DW and side chop it was ok as well provided you let the board roll and time to stay high on the bump. 

The Ace boof was actually easier to DW than the cutting displacement of the Touring because of the pearl twist problem.  But once you get comfortable on the very small sweet zone out back - you can go quite ok DW.  I like that for the challenge on the Touring - but I use a fin that does not catch so the fin can release.  The OEM Race 24 works ok on that board.  It provides some slip and has just enough hold.

The Ace actually is a nice board - but I prefer non-dugouts so I can sit and wait in comfort.  Also storage for such a thick board is a problem for us.

[Area 10]

Yeah - carrying dugouts can be hard too. And stacking them. But if you are in flat water you've got somewhere to store your lunch

I've just noticed that Offshore has the 27" wide Ace. That's probably a different proposition than the 25" wide one I have. It might be more stable enough to make downwinding it a whole lot easier. But then maybe if I had the 27"
Ace then I'd find the Vapor faster DW in small as well as big stuff, and they'd be no point using the Ace... Who knows? The Ace is a very special board - there isn't much else like it really.