Author Topic: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?  (Read 3638 times)

linter

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SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« on: October 12, 2016, 02:02:11 PM »
  for various medical reasons that've led to some pretty severe muscle wasting, a doctor has put me on an anabolic steroid called nandrolone.  he said i've got to exercise but wasn't specific.  so i'm wondering if 2 hrs of SUP surfing 3 times a week or more would count or by exercise, if you're on steroids, does that mean weight lifting and the like?  i have no idea who to ask about this so i thought i'd try here.

  and, frankly, if i surf 3 x a week or more i hardly have the energy and/or strength to go to a gym, altho i bet if i tried it i'd find that my legs especially aren't getting the workout they need from SUP alone, not to mention all the rest of my under-developed muscles.

  anyone have any insights into this?


warmuth

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 02:11:04 PM »
  For muscle wasting youd be better off lifting weights. SUP is exercise and not without merit but there's no real built in progressive overload to stimulate muscle growth.

Eagle

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 02:52:01 PM »
In middle age - muscle wasting is quite normal because most people never do specific weight bearing exercises on purpose.  It is a bore and a PITA and may be really hard for some.  But sarcopenia and bone density loss are truly major problems - and if you have this exacerbated for various other medical reasons you should take action for sure.  Your doctor should recommend some specific exercises for you - or refer you see a PT.  They should help a bit to get you started.  Maybe ask him.

But without understanding your specific problem - a couple simple tests to check for strength - is to time yourself for one minute.  Stand and sit down on a chair - and repeat this as many times as you can.  Another is to count how many times you can pull your body up hanging from a bar - and lift your chin over the bar.  That will give you some idea of your lower and upper body strength - and set a simple baseline for you.

From my experience SUP does very little to build any real muscle mass on my body.  Even my core is only very minimally taxed paddling for hours at a high intensity.  Maybe overall I get a bit of toning.  But it does most definitely improve my balance and helps me to relax and have some fun on the water.

CNS muscle adaption and bone remodeling are huge benefits of free weight exercises and body weight exercises.  Both my muscle mass and BMD increased due to my specific weight bearing protocols since my last DEXA scan.  Definitely get multiple DEXA scans as well - and talk to a very smart nutritionist.
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supsurf-tw

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 04:01:29 PM »
Yes you need to weight train for the nandrolone to work at it's best and it needs to be injected. It's one of the best steroids out there.

 You want to find a trainer that is familiar with compound exercises (multi joint) and not just a cardio bunny type that  has you doing a bunch of useless exercises. You'll squat, deadlift and bench press, preferably with dumbells if your shoulders are not able to handle a straight bar. Plus a couple of accessory exercises. These are the bread and butter exercises and are the best bang for the buck for time spent and will rapidly add muscle. You need someone knowledgeable to teach proper form.  Nandrolone (Deca) and proper weight training is the 1-2 punch for rapid muscle growth and bone density improvement
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warmuth

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 05:22:40 PM »
  Does he have you on testosterone as well?

natas585

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 05:54:31 PM »
Lift those weights. Keep it simple squat, press, and dead lift. Any variations of those and you'll be golden. Less time in the gym too.
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linter

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 01:07:58 AM »
yup, on testosterone as well, along with a bunch of other things meant to more or less balance out the hormonal effects of the nandrolone (which with the T i do take via injection).

i would love to do the compounds lifts suggestion, as i am a fan of that rippetoe guy, but my muscular system is no longer stable enough for free weights.  plus, i have a small rotator cuff tear that makes many lifts hard to impossible for me to do, which means i also won't be doing pull ups any time soon.

(i could get the tear repaired but the doc says as long as i'm able to do what i want to do without issue -- in this case, SUP -- then i shouldn't risk surgery, especially given my age [somewhat advanced] and my other health issues.  being able to lift free weights isn't going to change my mind on this.  frankly, i just don't have the 6 months to spare for the time it'll take for surgery, rest, recup and PT.)

so, where does this leave me? i sure don't want to waste all the money and time spent poking myself with needles a gazillion times a week.

can you do the compound-lift 5x5 program with machines?  the purists say no.  but it's got to be better than doing nothing.  just got to modify it to deal with the shoulder issue and then take it slow.

as regards PT people, esp in my small half-backwards town, i just don't trust them to know that they might not know what to do and might need to bone up on it to handle a one-off situation like mine.  the doc prescribing the steroid will do just that and no more.  And my neurologist just says, basically, good luck to you, sir, you are off the reservation with this one.

right now, since most of the atrophy is in my legs, i think i'll start doing a ton of leg work.

thanks for the responses and for allowing me to think out loud!

natas585

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 04:20:51 AM »
Anything you can do standing will have a bit more of a peripheral benefit to any exercise you do rather than sitting while doing the exercise. That being said, do what you can within your safe range of motion on the particular joint(s). Another one of the reasons sup is so fantastic of an activity for anyone who can get off the floor and walk. With technology you can get some good help on figuring out what you can do no matter where you're located. Just do some online research for a reputable physio or lifting coach and most of them can remote view you on skype or facetime to help you with proper execution of movements to keep you lifting within "your" safe ranges. With practice and paying close attention to what your body's telling you progress can be made towards your goal. Our bodies are highly adaptive and react not only to what we do to it but also to what we don't do to it. So if we don't slowly work towards regaining at least some safe ranges of motion we will certainly lose it.
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Eagle

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 09:40:16 AM »
i would love to do the compounds lifts suggestion, as i am a fan of that rippetoe guy, but my muscular system is no longer stable enough for free weights.  plus, i have a small rotator cuff tear that makes many lifts hard to impossible for me to do, which means i also won't be doing pull ups any time soon.

can you do the compound-lift 5x5 program with machines?  the purists say no.  but it's got to be better than doing nothing.  just got to modify it to deal with the shoulder issue and then take it slow.

right now, since most of the atrophy is in my legs, i think i'll start doing a ton of leg work.

thanks for the responses and for allowing me to think out loud!
Machines would be better than doing nothing.  So use them - modify - and take it slow.

But if you can do free standing squats that would be real good since you want to use your full body weight and spine for balance.  That forces use of all your supporting muscles and tendons - and is compound.

Just do some of those to build up a bit of stability strength.  Then add a kettle bell as a weight or add an unloaded bar as a weight.  You can incorporate some arm and core strengthening this way as well.  Take it easy and stay within your safe zone.  You will build muscle bones and leg strength.  Quads hams and butt especially.

With dumbbells and a kettle bell you can actually do quite a bit to help strengthen your body right at home - when you want to skip the gym.  I do all my exercises right at the convenience of home.
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stoneaxe

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 11:10:52 AM »
Come up for a visit and see my PT, Adrian Blindt. Former power lifter that worked wonders for me. Very, very smart guy (PhD in Genetics before getting interested in PT because of his weight lifting) and very thoughtful about what works for each individual. everyone I know that has seen him thinks he works miracles. Maybe he knows somebody close to you that could work for the longer run too.
http://baystatept.com/locations/carver
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 11:12:29 AM by stoneaxe »
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ninja tuna

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 01:59:31 PM »
Hey Linter,

You have received some very good info here. I am just going to throw out another option.  there is a pretty good strength coach named Dan John.  He is no-nonsense, just meat and potatoes guy with a great reputation in the strength world for keeping things simple. and he is over 50 so he has an idea about you older guys. :)  You could try and get in contact with him.  I think the easiest way would be to get on this other forum and explain your situation and maybe see if you could talk to him about what you are going through.
 
http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/73/

I have no affiliation with him, except for reading his books, listening to his podcasts, and watching his youtube videos.


linter

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Re: SUP nearly enough if you're on an anabolic steroid?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 05:46:29 AM »
eagle: i like your train of thought and that's pretty much the way i've been moving.  i have a bunch of kettlebells at home, which i do like to use, esp the lighter ones.

   i sometimes think i've painted myself into a corner and/or a box where i've convinced myself my situation is so unique that no one is going to know enough to help.  like both yesterday and today, while i was in the water, my right leg went completely numb for maybe ten minutes total, which has never happened before.  so now is that because i've been surfing too much, or is it the nandralone/t/etc,  or is it the low-dose cialis / cirtulline i've been taking to keep my blood pumping, or is it a sign of the disease's progression or none of the above?  and why am i literally totally exhausted most of the time, despite the t, and the nuvigil, and the adderral, and the caffeine.  and given all this, who would have even an inkling of the answer?  certainly, none of the specialists i see would.  they know their areas and not much outside of em and have no curiosity (or time, i suppose) to look deeper.

That said, Stoneaxe, I'll look into your guy, maybe ask him if he has any thoughts.  if he does, boston here i come (and hopefully soon, since i'm off the san diego come dec 3).  Ninja Tuna -- I've heard good things about Dan John, so thanks for suggesting him, and I'll go see what he has to say, too.

onward!



 

 


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