Author Topic: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.  (Read 34505 times)

photofr

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2016, 01:54:25 PM »
While we can't save everyone, most deaths can be saved my making sure that stand up paddlers wear a leash in all conditions. Education should also be at the top of the list.

PFDs and helmets are not, in my opinion, as important for ocean paddling as the above.

So if we are really concerned about people's safety, can someone please explain to me why it will take couple of years to implement something like education, or better yet: WEARING A LEASH!?

REF.: "the work we do in the next few years..."
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Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2016, 02:15:07 PM »
^^^ Great to hear.  I guess almost a year worth of emails is finally making something happen.


Good for you Easy Rider! Also wanted to say I liked your video shown in the other thread. Will be most interested to see Part 2.
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SeldomScene

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2016, 07:45:11 PM »
I'm all in on the leash thing.  However, folks need to be able to remount in all conditions.  That means practicing it, just as kayakers practice rolling and re-entries, and surf skiers practice remounts. From both sides, in all conditions.  If you're too weak or fat to climb back on, you shouldn't be out there.  Otherwise, you'll try til you're too tired then be floating helpless or dead leashed to your board.  When I kayaked, I practiced rolling year round, in the pool, lake and ocean.  In my surfski, I drop off then remount at the end of almost every paddle session.  Good cool down. 

stoneaxe

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2016, 09:09:37 PM »
I went out for a paddle last weekend in Onset harbor with my wife. There's a rental place nearby, lots of SUPs out. Nobody with leashes except us, PFD's on boards for the most part. It's a fairly placid harbor but has some currents and I've had afternoon winds kick up and make paddling tough. It was kind of shocking to see so many newbs, half with backward paddles. One guy on an old mistral windsurfer with a kayak paddle was paddling back to his place to get his PFD since the harbor master had told him he needed one.... he said he was paddling to the bar...... :o We saw him later with his PFD duck taped to the board on his way back. Same day we had seen this young guy out paddling all over the place, again PFD on the board. On our way back to the launch point the wind had kicked up....maybe 10-12 mph in our face. We're paddling up the beach and I see the guy fall in about 50yds in front of us....the board goes 10' away from him and he starts swimming after it......he doesn't swim as well as my 6 year old granddaughter and the board pulls away. He's lucky he was only in 5 ft of water and we were downwind....I stopped his board and guided it into the beach. Why would you not wear the PFD and paddle out in the middle of the harbor if you can't swim for shit?... ::). I told him that I'm a good swimmer, had paddled the board I was on 1,000's of miles, was wearing a PFD, and had on a leash.....I'm not sure he got my point..... :P
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 09:14:57 PM by stoneaxe »
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PonoBill

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2016, 10:12:09 PM »
50 percent of the people on the planet are dumber than a box of hammers. You can't fix stupid.
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pdxmike

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2016, 12:07:51 AM »
And even the hammers know to use their heads.

yugi

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2016, 03:06:14 AM »


From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!
…

I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John

Glad to see mention of flotation assisting devices, rather than full PFD.

One can certainly inform people better. Especially Re leash.

I’m with pono though, if they think they are going to save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers they are setting everyone up for disappointment. I recommend they adjust their goal to better informing people, then let people save themselves. Or not.

addapost

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2016, 04:41:45 AM »
50 percent of the people on the planet are dumber than a box of hammers. You can't fix stupid.
And the bottom half of the upper half are not very impressive either.
Bunch of old shit

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2016, 06:47:35 AM »
And even the hammers know to use their heads.


Now that's funny!!
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Badger

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2016, 06:54:02 AM »
And the other half avoids doing things that others might consider to be stupid. Therefore, their logical conclusion is that they themselves must be highly intelligent.
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SeldomScene

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2016, 08:57:40 AM »
To quote a wise Native American friend, "half the people don't need help, the other half can't be helped."

pdxmike

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2016, 01:13:51 PM »
From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!

SUPIA, ACA and industry leaders talk abotu safety
We were pleased to be a part of a preliminary safety policy meeting spearheaded by the SUPIA (Stand Up Paddle Industry Association) and the ACA (American Canoe and Kayak Association) to discuss standardized best practices recommendations for paddlers, manufacturers, retailers and rental businesses. It was a very productive meeting and the beginning of a long but important process.

It was fantastic to see the SUPIA step up and drive this with the ACA, bringing experienced, passionate but rational experts together to discuss a roadmap toward reducing injuries and fatalities in our sport. I left the meeting feeling inspired and energized and felt we'll be able to move in a positive direction as a community and a sport.

While I can't give out all the details yet, I can say that there were three things that seemed universally accepted. The first is that a PFD attached to a board simply for compliance to national laws does very little to protect paddlers. Second, the original classification of SUPs as crafts was made too early to be able to foresee how the sport would grow and evolve and had they known where we'd be now, the regulations would be quite different. And finally, if we don't step up as an industry and a sport and find ways to keep our people safe, Coast Guard, State and Local agencies will.

I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John
That sounds good, and I hope this goes in the right direction, which to me would be requiring wearing EITHER a pfd or leash.  But I don't trust the ACA.  Last year I asked the ACA about their views on PFD regulations. They didn't respond.  When I wrote again, they responded:

ACA
most certainly has a position of PFD wear on Stand Up Paddleboards – we recommend that SUP paddlers wear either an inherently buoyant of inflatable PFD at all times while SUPing, with the exception of the ocean surf zone.

I agree with that myself--as a RECOMMENDATION, not a law.  So I asked for what they thought the LAW should be, not what they recommend.  (And if fact their videos about leash and PFD wear have good, clear recommendations.)  I got this response from T.J. Turner, their Education & Outreach Coordinator:

The United States Coast Guard classifies a SUP as a personal watercraft and must be treated as such. The USCG has stated that an individual must have on the vessel or on their person a PFD to be in accord with the law, as well as a white light if operating 30 minutes before or after sunrise/set, and a sound signaling device (whistle). As for the ACA’s stance on the matter. We agree with the USCG.

Could there be any more bureaucratic, thoughtless position than that?  Turner went straight to the Coast Guard's stupid classification of SUPs, saying the ACA agreed with it, and then also supported having a PFD "on the vessel".  He also completely left leashes out of the answer.  Based on what the ACA told me, my guess is that unless the ACA will lobby for a requirement making WEARING a PFD mandatory, and will oppose any effort to allow leashes as an alternative.  I don't see the ACA understanding or caring about any arguments against mandatory wearing of PFDs, or in favor of leashes.

By the way, I should have then asked him, if the ACA agrees with the Coast Guard, then does that mean the ACA also supports the CG's requirement that unlimited SUPS carry flares or other signaling devices?  After all, they are vessels, and vessels over 16' (I believe) have those additional regulations.  If you believe the CG's rules are correct, you have to include those additional stupid rules.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 01:36:43 PM by pdxmike »

photofr

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
It is so unfortunate that people will pass more laws directly affecting everyone.

You can recommend wearing a bike helmet through education, and ultimately see lots of people wearing one. You can also recommend people wear a Leash and some sort of flotation devices, and ultimately see lots of people wearing quality leashes.

The problem is that if you let a law state that we must ALL wear a vest, you are not even close to solving real problems on the water. So, clearly, education is needed first, and then a list of recommended safety items can be brought forward as a recommendation. The alternative is that we will eventually be forced to wear:
Floatation aid
Leash
Helmet
Thick neoprene
Light
Flares
Horn
Life lines
Towing point up on bow and stern
Tow rope
Fire extinguisher

What's next?
Fire extinguishers for hikers in wilderness???

The days of a surfski or board under your arm, and a paddle in the other ARE JUST GONE - even if you train and can swim 8 km without thinking twice. This may turn out to be a slap across the face for many people, and all of this because we don't want to take the time to learn or educate others.


leashes.
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Eagle

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2016, 05:27:53 PM »
http://m.wmur.com/news/drowning-investigated-in-weare/40965196

2 paddleboarders drowned over the weekend in Weare, NH. Both did not have a life jacket.

This seems to be the common problem over and over.  There already is a law to have a PFD - but some paddlers do not follow even that.  So adding more laws may not reduce drownings by much.  Some paddlers simply are not aware of the risks.  It seems in most cases - the paddler that drowned was not wearing a PFD or even had one strapped to their board. 

Education is the key.  Adding other safety devices like leashes etc should be optional the way it is.  Some paddlers have drowned because the leash has held the person underwater.  For us in the ocean -> we always wear a PFD -> and always use a leash.  Everyone we paddle with does.  Education and simply wear a PFD.  Also use a high quality leash and make sure your board to leash connection is good as well.
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photofr

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2016, 10:50:37 PM »
The cool thing about education is that sometimes, you can "just ask a question" to your students:
- Scenario No. 5: It's a hot day (around 78 degrees), you are wearing shorts, you have a leash attached to your leg, and you have just paddled some 14 km. On the way home, you find couple of waves on an offshore reef and decide to surf one. You are still 500 meters from shore. Water temperature is about 55 degrees. YOU FALL IN, YOUR LEASH SNAPS.

What do you do?
(describe your actions, step by step)

In a classroom situation, it's always amazing to watch people's eyes and reaction. You can almost "see" them thinking and light up. So, if you are going to pass a single law, make it *Education.
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