Putting the weight on

[Subber]

  I'll be very interested to hear what you think, especially now that I'm going to be back on my B&B fulltime.  2.5 lbs seems like a goodly amount of weight, so if nothing else, the effect of it should definitely be noticeable.  What fin are you going to try it with first?

Here you go Linter (I created a new thread cause I felt someone might not appreciate it
inside a Sunova marketplace thread):

I got to try the tail-weighted B&B today.  Surfline said it was 3 to 4 feet +.
It was pretty good shape and not too windy - so good conditions except the crowd.
Some overhead waves.

It was crowded.  I even got hit by an aggressive beginner shortboarder with
a thin, very pointy board.  I'd seen him earlier and could not believe it but he
could actually catch a wave, although he couldn't surf very well.  I moved my
takeoff area away from him, but somehow he dropped in  - luckily I wasn't hit
by the point. No board damage. I can't remember the last time I actually got
hit by someone and today I also had a couple other close calls - so in that way,
not optimal for an "experiment."

Anyway, it was crowded & people were shoulder hopping, etc. but I did get
quite a few nice waves.  But in those conditions, I'm not as much into stalling
the board, but more just run up on the nose, cutbacks, etc.  I think I could have
used more precision for better results as far as hanging toes.

Well, I did go with the 10.25" Rainbow Nomad fin, so I don't really have a complete base line; however, it
is pretty much like some of the other fins I have. 

First, it wasn't all that different carrying it down the stairs to the surf - tail didn't drag.
I did notice the extra weight but not much; coming back up the stairway after the surf
was another matter - it seemed like it was 20 pounds heavier.

In the water, I think it lowered the tail a little and was a bit more work to paddle.
I think as a heavier board, it was a bit more stable and went through the whitewater
a little more easily.
I was concerned it may have negatively affected taking off but it didn't seem to -
difficult to tell any difference.

Ok, on the wave, I do think the board was more stable and I was able to get out
further on the nose than normal - although not positive with that fin, since I'd not
used it previously.  I was up "in the black" pretty much whenever I wanted to  be.
Several times I was within about five inches of the tip. Usually on bigger waves
- Some were overhead - I was surfing on the nose in the steeper part of the wave
much more than normal but, geeze, didn't want to risk wiping out by trying to hang toes
over the nose.

I did get some great rides.
The board did everything well - take-offs, cut backs, noserides, pivot turns, bottom turns, etc.
I did seem to be maybe a tad more slugglish...but I think that also translated into more stablility.
After a while I really didn't really notice it - although I would think "I've got extra hold"
when running up front & I do think it does result (from more water over the tail) in a bit
more support.  I have to work more on stalling and burying the tail - but the crowd was
distracting me I think.  Thinking about it, I do think the board was a bit slower which was
good today as the waves weren't closing out (very often) so maybe it kept me more in the pocket.

One thing, I did take off on a pretty large wave switch-foot - pretty strange because
I don't normally do that and I really didn't even think about it - never done it on a wave that large
- maybe, the extra stability gave me extra confidence - it was kind of fun when I realized
what I was doing.

So, bottom line is that it was good enough and fun enough that I'll leave it on and try
it with some of the other fins from my quiver - hopefully, toes over!

[linter]

Well, that's pretty dang cool to hear.  Would you mind posting a photo of where you've got the lead taped on?  I wonder how much, if any, of what you're experiencing is psychological?  as in, you're expecting to do better on the nose, so you do.  i like that the lead slows you down a little, but what about if you're trying to make it around a section, did it hamper you then?
   I know what you mean about carry weight.  When I first tried the lead experiment, getting to the water was no big deal, but the return trip left me huffing and puffing and having to take breathers along the way.
   Thanks for the report.  Can't wait to hear more, especially how you like the lead w/ the Skeg fin.

[Bean]

I guess I don't get it.  If the point is to keep the tail down, adding a lump of weight to the tail seems counter intuitive (to me) as it would disturb the water flow across the tail which in turn would decrease the tails natural ability to hold down on the wave.

[Subber]

Hey Bean,

The idea is that the tail could be just a bit too floaty to get a good chunk of water on top of it
to counterbalance you on the nose.  In your case it might not be true - you have the smallest
B&B but we've got the 10'1".

The lead is only a about 1/4" thick - its height above the board is about even with top of the pad
which it is up against.  Thus, I don't think there is any flow issue but there could be if you stacked
something up higher like maybe a stomp pad.  Of course, I guess it depends, it could make
it better but I tried to make it unobtrusive.

I'll get a picture up shortly.

[Bean]

The proof is in the puddin' as they say, if it works that's all that really matters.

And yes, I'm 205 on a 117 liter board so excess float is not an issue for me.

[Subber]

Linter, yes I guess it could be psychological,
athough I was actually expecting it to work a bit better -
but I really didn't take any chances - on the SUP I don't like
to fall in the water, so I'm a bit cautious.  Not once did
I do a nose dive while perched (although I got dunked
more than normal mostly due to the crowd and closeouts).

I think it will work better with the Skeg and some of the
other fins.  We'll see.

Also, because it was so crowded, I wasn't really doing my best to
slow the board down, you know stall it.  Generally the waves were a bit
fast and sectiony. It did pivot nicely.  So, I did readjust sometimes
but mostly it was just go.

The setup was a bit slower - but the waves were such that they
weren't closing out if you took off in the right spot.  Sometimes
I'd get a bit behind - the good thing about SUP is you can
hit the gas - the paddle. 

Earlier in the year we had some big surf where it was very fast
and you had to have a very fast board to make it - and then it was
 a long ride.  Anyway, I had the B&B but I wish I had had my Laird
with the small side bites and pretty small center fin - it is a much
easier ride in those conditions because it is a lot faster.  There was
a guy on a big Sim Sup who was killing it - making it all the way.
Other than him only the shortboarders were making it all the way.

[Subber]

The proof is in the puddin' as they say, if it works that's all that really matters.

And yes, I'm 205 on a 117 liter board so excess float is not an issue for me.

Lol....I'm 195 on 164 liters.  I think Linter is quite a bit lighter.

[Subber]

Two 4" by 4" squares.

[southwesterly]

 I find that it's easier to add weight to the rider.

[linter]

s'westerly: har de har.  good one!

subber: thanks for the pic.  think i'll try it in a few days, after i get my sea legs baack following my failed sunova style experiment.  i weigh 165 but have a neurologic/muscle problem that makes me the equivalent of a 300 lber, if not more, in terms of balance skills and stability needs.
   I agree, the laird is much better in fast waves.  i have the 10-6 one out in CA but i haven't ridden it in two years.  for what i want to do, it's too too speedy, and i don't go out in big faster waves, so i don't really need anything but the B&B.
   For whatever reason, I also like the nose shape on the Jimmy better than the Style.  The first times I got up there on the Style, I found it kind of wobbly and slidey.  Much operator error, I'm sure, but the B&B exhibits no such tendencies.
    Keep us posted on future findings and i will of course do the same.

[Subber]

I find that it's easier to add weight to the rider.

Ha Ha!....yeah, but I'm trying to lose that weight.
 

[linter]

Man, you do got that board taped up.  All along the rails like that, right?  At this point, that wouldn't do me much good.  Two times in the rear-view mirror of my Kia, I've watched my B&B cartwheel down the highway.  Today, what with all the repairs and no attempt at paint matching, the thing looks like a patchwork quilt.  And yet, such is the great Jimmy construction, the damage isn't 1/8th what I thought it'd be.  The fin took hits but the fin box never budged.  Quite some boards.

Meanwhile, thought I'd copy/paste your lead-hammering instruction here for future reference.  I love this kind of experimentation!

Subber wrote: I took the 4 thinner pieces (that I think you had taped on the bottom of your Surfapig),
untaped them, cut them in half. so I had eight 4" by 4" pieces that I put together into two lots of four each
that I then pounded with a mallet (and later a hammer to soften the edges and corners) and taped back together.
Then, I used double sided mounting tape to mount them behind the pad, one on each side of the leash.
Then, I taped them over them.  Seems pretty secure and obscure.
I think each of those original 4 pieces was ten ounces - so I think it is 40 ounces
or 2.5 pounds total.  Not a lot - maybe just enough to weight the tail down to a better level - we'll see.

[Subber]

Linter, I was wondering if anyone was going to notice that.

Well, my Laird was purchased as a demo/rental.  And I'm sure you know those old Surftechs chip
pretty bad.  So, now, ha! 5 years later the sides of my Laird's rails are all smooth as all the paint pretty much chipped
away and the edge of the board got "smoothed" by my paddle.  It actually looks better than it did
when it was just chips all over the place. 

Plus, I put my boards up on edge on top of the loosely coiled (straight) leash leaning against my van. 
I know I got some chips on the Laird from doing that too....but it is so much easier than hoisting it up on top of the
van - I keep it in the van so no reason to lift it up like that if I don't have to.  I treat my B&B
the same way without any problems (so far).

So, with the Jimmy B&B , brand new, I thought I'd do as much as I could to protect it.
Any, about nine months and probably 100 surfs later (and in lots of big surf), it is pretty much
blemish free. One little chip next to the fin box - that's it.  Maybe I should tape the bottom - lol.

Still, ha ha...it may look like hell with all the extra tape I put on it.  I did wonder if the tape
could effect how the water grabs the rails, but, at this point, I don't think so.  Even when there
are loose pieces of tape hanging off the edges.

I've got the RSPro on the main rails - it is awesome and looks great.
But then I added clear duct tape to the rest of the rails and the front and the back.  In fact on the
front and the back I added two layers of the clear duct tape.  And, it really crinkles on the curves.
As it gets old it almost turns to paper and starts to fall off...I just scissor the loose edges off and add
some more.  Another reason I added the front and back tape is because in the van the board
is up against the dash - and the Laird had a nice extra loss of paint right there on its nose.

Well, for sure the RSPro really protects the board, but I think the duct tape has also done its
job at least a few times when I bounced the board on the edge near the back of the tail. 

Good to hear your B&B held up so well even with it falling off your car.

Of course, the main thing is how the boards surf!
 

[Subber]

Tried the extra weight with the Skeg today.  Surfline said it was 3 to 4 feet but most of the waves were a bit smaller.  Crowded for the number of waves and quite a few competent surfers and, some closeouts and lots drop in and shoulder hopping – a lot more of that than normal because rather than several peaks there was really just one place to take off -  still fun but usually better than that.

Backside - I had a difficult time getting good waves because of the crowd.  Generally the break is a “right.”  Because of the crowd you really have to get off to the left to get a good takeoff where you have position but then today it likely will closeout or you’ll have a few shoulder hoppers in front of you. So, much more often than usual for me, I often went left, which is my backside.  Well, I was up in the black (extreme front of the B&B) several times which was also usual for me on my backside – I don’t remember ever getting up that far while going backside.

Front side - I did well but did not hang toes.  But, one time, I was in parallel stance with toes on each foot only about two inches from the nose – that is the furthest I’ve ever had Both feet up there – but suddenly the tail pulled out and I got dunked – pretty fun for a few seconds.

I think I just need a less crowded day so I can concentrate more on stalling the board than staying out of everyone’s way and getting dropped in on and shoulder hopped, etc. - lol

Overall, worked well.

[linter]

okay, subber, i'm going to try this.  went out in shin high stuff today and had a fin pop out a few times the closer to the nose i got.  maybe a little counterweight is what's called for.  will report back.  thanks for the update!