Do you think that prone surfers are mellowing toward SUP surfers?

[Zooport]

Beached, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't come from a prone surfing background? You as the person paddling out are 100% responsible for getting out of the person on the wave's way. No maybes or sometimes or even Obamas. That's just the way it is in surf culture, always has been and always will. Being "aware of your surroundings" completely falls on the person paddling out, especially if they're on an extremely mobile craft like a sup. Honestly its newbie opinions like yours that get surfers pissed off at SUPs to begin with.

Back on topic, I don't know where the OP is surfing but here in NorCal its July, and who on earth cares about the surf in July. Come that first NW groundswell in the beginning of September we'll be right back to conditional acceptance. But that's ok, it'll be very thoroughly worth it!

I agree with you completely, wrybread.  The rules in the surf are a little different than the rules almost anywhere else. 

The OP, me, is in Newport Beach, CA, and surfs almost daily in Newport and Huntington. 

[wrybread]

> The OP, me, is in Newport Beach, CA, and surfs almost daily in Newport and Huntington.

Nice! Looks like this run of south swells has been pretty fun down there?

Most of them have arrived, if at all, with strong onshores here in NorCal. Having a weird extended spring weather pattern this year. Good for down winders and should be good for salmon fishing soon, but so far its sucked for everything else.

> The rules in the surf are a little different than the rules almost anywhere else. 

Well put. And the learning curve with SUP is so fast that someone with 5 years of experience thinks they have some authority on how surf culture works. That's one of the things that drives me nuts about a lot of SUPers: they don't realize that 5 years is pretty much nothing and they're still total beginners as far as wave culture is concerned. Until people learn a little humility in the waves they're going to continue to be ostracized by their fellow surfers, and will continue to give all people riding SUPs a bad name.

At and around my local we have an army of SUPers who run wild when the surf is shitty and small, but as soon as they surf through a winter they learn what's up really quickly and realize that they need to listen to the people with experience, even on the small days. And that's the essence of surf culture: the understanding that, unless you absolutely completely rip, surf culture is something for you to learn, not to formulate opinions on. Its the people who haven't had their asses handed to them by big waves yet, and who don't understand what it means to be a good surfer, that are the biggest problems.

And on a sidenote, the word "kook" is a direct reference to people paddling back out and being in the way. It means a shit (a "kukae" in Hawaiian) floating in the lineup, that people have to surf around. Don't be a kook!

[Bean]

...i made the mistake of not leaving the area the second a proner showed up.

If I surf at your break, I'll have to remember to paddle out on a prone board first... 

Wrybread could not be more right, the surfer paddling out has to yield to the person riding the wave so everyone is on the same page and understands what to expect from each other.   The same holds true in mountain biking on single track, on many trails, the person descending yields to the person climbing.  In snowboarding/skiing the rider from behind has to look out for the riders ahead, etc.  By applying rules based upon common sense, everyone knows what to expect. 
   

[surf4food]

> The rules in the surf are a little different than the rules almost anywhere else. 

Well put. And the learning curve with SUP is so fast that someone with 5 years of experience thinks they have some authority on how surf culture works. That's one of the things that drives me nuts about a lot of SUPers: they don't realize that 5 years is pretty much nothing and they're still total beginners as far as wave culture is concerned. Until people learn a little humility in the waves they're going to continue to be ostracized by their fellow surfers, and will continue to give all people riding SUPs a bad name.

Absolutely.  I’m sure I will get some flack for this but personally I think if someone’s only form of surfing they’ve ever done is SUP, they have an obligation to understand surf etiquette AND culture and need to learn it quickly.  Also (this is where I will REALLY get some flack from some) need to be at least somewhat tolerant of the intolerant (angry prone surfers).  By that being respectful despite nasty and threatening rants and maybe even heading over to an empty break even if the waves are crappy.  The fact that the ocean is for everyone is not going to be a saving grace if you cut someone off, get in someone’s way when paddling out, or lose control of your board and it hits someone else.  Despite how small SUP boards have gotten, a lot of SUPers are still using some pretty large barges. 

[wrybread]

The same holds true in mountain biking on single track, on many trails, the person descending yields to the person climbing.  In snowboarding/skiing the rider from behind has to look out for the riders ahead, etc.  By applying rules based upon common sense, everyone knows what to expect. 

Well put!

Absolutely.  I’m sure I will get some flack for this but personally I think if someone’s only form of surfing they’ve ever done is SUP, they have an obligation to understand surf etiquette AND culture and need to learn it quickly.  Also (this is where I will REALLY get some flack from some) need to be at least somewhat tolerant of the intolerant (angry prone surfers).  By that being respectful despite nasty and threatening rants and maybe even heading over to an empty break even if the waves are crappy.  The fact that the ocean is for everyone is not going to be a saving grace if you cut someone off, get in someone’s way when paddling out, or lose control of your board and it hits someone else.  Despite how small SUP boards have gotten, a lot of SUPers are still using some pretty large barges.

Totally agreed. And I don't think it really matters much if we get flack for this point of view. Whether people realize it or not we're just telling them the way the lineup works. They're completely free to ignore the advice, but if they ever want to fit in at any lineup, this is the advice they need to take.

Surf culture is an old and well established thing, and it can easily handle a couple of people ignoring its conventions. It'll handle them the way it has for 60+ years: by ignoring, vibing, and ostracizing them. If someone causes a hazard and they're at the wrong spot, the consequences might be worse of course, but in general they'll just be unwelcome.  Maybe dropped in on.

So if someone just wants to surf alone or with their buddy who also has no clue how to surf, and doesn't mind being an outcast, go ahead and form whatever opinions you want while ranting about how "the ocean is for everyone". But if they want to be citizens of the lineup, then they're going to have to learn to live according to the rules of that society. And remember that if you want to progress as a surfer beyond sheer kookdom, you're absolutely going to have to be a welcomed member of that society.

And honestly I think its really important for people who ride SUPs and are experienced surfers (15+ years, which pretty much always means came from a prone background) to explain this to newbie SUP folk. Its tough for them to learn this stuff since SUPs are default ostracized at most breaks. And learning this stuff is pretty much the only way SUP will ever be accepted at most lineups.

Its a tough one though since a 2 year SUP rider can surf pretty well on non consequential waves. So it can be difficult to explain to them that they're getting in people's way or hogging waves or over-exposing the spot on Facebook or whatever. But I really think we have to do it. They can of course ignore us, but at least they'll have some idea of why people don't like them, as opposed to just being the clueless person that no one will talk to.

[GOTWAVZ]

Funny you ask....

I have gotten into the habit of not making eye contact with proners over the years, which is against my normal friendly, cheerful self, because of so many negative encounters..."good morning responded with an unfriendly fuck you, get that thing out of here" kind of stuff.

But lately I'm having proners come up to me and ask me about my board, dimensions, even saying hello and complementing my style.  I'm not used to it, but its nice.   

[SUPcheat]

I am seeing less of the "SUP hog".  Even last year, there were a couple of SUP guys who considered it war to pick off every wave they could in spite of any line up.

I see a guy on SUP regularly out there, and about a month and a half ago, the proners at Privates told him he was a wave hog and wasn't respecting their turn on the waves.  I would call him blithely "unaware" more than a conscious wave hog, but he took it to heart and paid more attention.

In spite of myself, I will still non-purposely engage in a drop in on occasion.  A girl ran into me a couple of weeks ago and said she was sorry.  I told her, no, I was sorry because I dropped in on her and did not see her coming, and it was my fault.  Maybe every two months or so it happens no matter how careful I try to be, and I apologize when it happens and accept responsibility.

As far as mowing down shoreside people, there are too many variables to make this situation justifiable at all, sorry, it just is not right in anybody's ethical universe.

A lot of the proners, even the talented and experienced ones, are saying hello and acting friendly to me after seeing me out there in my regular haunts. It helps to catch one good wave and at least demonstrate basic surfing capability.  I even get called into a wave once in a while.

[PonoBill]

I surfed this morning at 2nd street and everyone was more than cordial. Small surf, and the wind was pretty wicked, but fun. When I got out a longboarder stopped me to look at my board and said "you were ripping it up out there." We talked a little and he told me he thought he was too old to change to SUP. I asked how old he was and he said 55. Needless to say that was a good opportunity for correction.

I'm in Santa Barbera on a quickie road trip to determine if we should buy a little Bambi Airstream to camp in. Answer--no. Not that a Bambi Airstream isn't just swell, it is. It's that we don't like hanging out in campgrounds with the population density of Hong Kong. Cool, saved me $60K, to be spent slowly at luxury hotels in the same areas. Diane is lusting for the Canary Hotel and their very pleasant rooftop pool.

Back to the topic, people were downright welcoming. And I wasn't on my L41, I was on my Big Foote.

[wrybread]

Awesome Pono. I like to travel by camper too, and for whatever its worth I've found the population density in campgrounds *much* less once you leave SoCal. But yeah, they still have their issues.

And very cool interaction. I think as people see how fun SUP is they *have* to want to try it. That's what happened to me, someone who I'm now good friends with was completely tearing it up and catching impossible numbers of rides on a peak all by himself. I was your standard issue SUP hating prone surfer at the time, even though I loved kayak surfing. Just wouldn't try SUP at all. But watching that made me see how fun it could be. Now I thoroughly love SUP.

And @SUPcheat, I don't think anyone sees the occasional foul as a big deal. The important thing is to know and acknowledge that its a foul, apologize, etc. As you say it's amazing how far a little "sorry about that' goes.

[AJR]

I think it's getting better - especially at the breaks I surf regularly.  As one of the "regulars" I've been called into waves, given the thumbs-up for a good ride, and even complemented on the fact that I'm not a wave hog.  And while I understand and do my best to follow the rules of the line up I don't consider it ever allowable to run into someone just to teach them a lesson.  I've passed or pulled out short on plenty of waves when someone is in the way.  It's not worth hurting myself or someone else nor having to cut a session short because of a ding...

[Beasho]

My favorite line with the proners is "Take any wave you want.  I will go for what I can catch, stay wide and outside, and kick out if you catch the wave.  If you find yourself outside of me don't worry I will go deep and sacrifice into the pit.  I catch plenty of waves so don't worry about it."

This always takes them by surprise and breaks the rules in a self deprecating way.  The reality is that they still stick to the program but can't get pissed at you for being so damn nice.

Alternately its a subtle backhanded insult because the proners are essentially handicapped with their short boards.  The good guys will still get their fill but the strategy mellows the angry middle-of-the-pack crowd. 

[othpaddler]

Some of the citations to surf etiquette here have been pretty harsh and rigid.  I have been surfing in Hawaii since 1975, so I obviously started as a prone surfer.  Here on Oahu there are some very elite spots and you will be driven away quite quickly on an SUP or otherwise if you are not sufficiently skilled for the break.  On the other hand there are many, many spots with really good surf where beginners (including tourists) will be seen with some regularity, and yet (assuming you are not an asshole) the line-up is generally tolerant of anyone making an effort to be respectful to others.

 

[othpaddler]

Regarding the topic of this thread, yes I do agree that proners have become more tolerant of SUPs.  And I agree that is because we are more common, more skilled on average (compared to the initial new fad phase) and many are on relatively smaller boards.

[addapost]

All of the above, less agro. SUP surfers are getting better, SUP boards are getting smaller, we're no longer new and we are not going away. One thing I do notice now, however, is based on numbers: If there are more prone boards than SUP there can be a little "feeling" of negativity. If numbers are equal at the break, everything is usually cool and everyone has fun. If there are more SUP's, well, the proners usually leave.

[Bean]

Some of the citations to surf etiquette here have been pretty harsh and rigid.  I have been surfing in Hawaii since 1975, so I obviously started as a prone surfer.  Here on Oahu there are some very elite spots and you will be driven away quite quickly on an SUP or otherwise if you are not sufficiently skilled for the break.  On the other hand there are many, many spots with really good surf where beginners (including tourists) will be seen with some regularity, and yet (assuming you are not an asshole) the line-up is generally tolerant of anyone making an effort to be respectful to others.

No doubt, etiquette not only varies by surf break but also tends to get more rigid as conditions escalate.