Author Topic: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.  (Read 4239 times)

ukgm

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12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« on: June 10, 2016, 04:34:52 AM »

PonoBill

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2016, 05:38:04 AM »
Yeah. I can't beleive they're doing that. Why do some people start off with the idea of eliminating choices? What strange twist of logic compels a promoter to reduce the number of people who will compete and force pro-level competition down to the jockey level?

And the open class is 12'6" and 14". WTF? This is a MAGAZINE putting on the event. They should have some notion of inclusiveness. I understand that most people who are serious about racing own a raceboard, but wouldn't you want to encorage people who just want to give it a try by including surfboards as a class? How hard is that? And no unlimited. I realize that few people show up with unlimiteds anymore, but that's because stupid race classes like these have eliminated them. The argument is like breaking someone's leg and complaining that they didn't show up for work.

I'd be the first to say that 14' as a limit is a bad idea to begin with, but it's aincient history, and it's what we have. Did someone wake up and say "I have a great idea, let's make SUP races slower, and make anyone who weighs more than 160 uncompetitive."

I've heard they're concerned about carnage. If they stick a buoy inside so the packs have to turn 90 degrees across a breaking wave, there's going to be carnage. Doesn't matter if the racers are on an unlimited or a 10'6". And yes, there's a push to get 10'6" as the limit for pros, at which point the pro class becomes of zero interest to almost anyone.

Wouldn't matter at all if this was some minor local race. Set up stupid rules like this and no one comes. But this is arguably the biggest race of the year. Like running the Kentucky Derby on Shetland Ponys.
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2016, 08:33:22 AM »
Yeah, I thought SUPracer wrote a good critique of the decision. His main points that I agreed most with were:

*The carnage last year was not because of the extra 1.5' of board length of the 14's, it was because they put 32 frothing racers on a crazy course in big surf with a buoy turn right in the breaking waves zone. So reducing the max board size to 12'6 was pointless and only caused more trouble.

*The "anything up to 14'" rule was a good idea that they shouldn't have gotten rid of.

Pono- I didn't know the open class wasn't an open class or that it didn't include a surf-style board category. That also seems like a lousy decision. What about the open class being just "raceboard" (with no length restrictions) and "surf-style"?
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pdxmike

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2016, 12:22:37 PM »
And yes, there's a push to get 10'6" as the limit for pros, at which point the pro class becomes of zero interest to almost anyone.
There was another article about that previously.  As I recall, the argument was something like, "10'-6" boards are better for surf races than longer boards, so we should make a new category that limits boards to 10-6".    But if they work better, why make a limit, since racers will choose them anyway?  Or, if racers are choosing boards longer than 10-6, that means they DON'T think 10-6s work better, so the premise that they do is wrong.  Or, if you're right, and the racers choosing longer boards are just hurting themselves with their bad gear choice, why not leave them free to suffer the consequences of a poor choice?

If a shorter board works better, that's a reason to NOT limit boards to that length, since going longer won't help you.  Unless you have some special circumstance, and in that case, the lower limit unfairly disadvantages you.

That's what's great about "14' or shorter".  If you think you'll do better on a shorter board, you're free to use it.  If not, you can still use the 14.

ukgm--that was a good article--thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:25:25 PM by pdxmike »

surf4food

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2016, 08:45:33 PM »
This almost reminds me of my Navy career where leaders openly admitted they would knowingly make bad decisions some of the time.  To me it seems it would simply be better to not only have a single class "up to 14'" but maybe up to unlimited which would really mean no board classes, at least for this event.  The reality is an 18 foot board would not be the best choice for plowing through the surf, so instead people would use the beast board for both their size, weight, and conditions at hand.       

PonoBill

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2016, 09:09:18 PM »
Call me a cynic, but race organizers like to maintain and display control. It's an opportunity to strut a bit. I race cars too. Some of the organizers just seem to get off on making decisions. God bless them, we wouldn't have racing without them. But you just have to wonder what's rattling around in those little heads. In car racing it's tires they torture us with--total chaos, with one race organizer requiring X and another y. In SUP it's board length.

We probably wouldn't have 14' boards if Naish hadn't decided to set that as a limit for the early races they organized. In the early days it was some amorphous size between 12 and 17 feet that worked best for each weight spectrum of riders. There was no "unlimited". The classes were surfboards and everything else. I've always thought Naish just wanted to screw Starboard even though Naish was making a 17 then. Then Sparky and Gerry wanted to have a race that came through the surf and decided 12'6" was a nice round number for that. Gotta think there was beer involved. Two arbitrary decisions that are still causing problems.

I don't know what the guys at SUP the mag are smoking, but this is all pretty goofy. Worried about surf, but no surfboard class in Open? Someone in the elite class might get hurt if we let the best SUP atheletes in the world use 14' boards, but they're OK for weekend warriors?

It's all more than a little bipolar, and we're obviously not privy to the motivations for the decision. I'm thinking it's pakalolo. Or maybe they just don't want too many people to show up. Parking! It's always a problem at Doheny. That could be it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:21:40 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surf4food

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2016, 09:46:52 PM »
I'm just worried that shit like this is going the make SUP (at least at the pro competitive level) go the way of windsurfing. 

pdxmike

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2016, 10:21:09 PM »
This almost reminds me of my Navy career where leaders openly admitted they would knowingly make bad decisions some of the time.  To me it seems it would simply be better to not only have a single class "up to 14'" but maybe up to unlimited which would really mean no board classes, at least for this event.  The reality is an 18 foot board would not be the best choice for plowing through the surf, so instead people would use the beast board for both their size, weight, and conditions at hand.       
That makes sense to me.  In fact, it sounds backwards, but you could say that the races like surf races, where the longer boards are least suited to the conditions, are the ones that should be most willing to allow all board lengths. 


Like you pretty much said (in different words) if you're going to allow "up to 14'", you might as well allow "all lengths", since it might mean you'd get a couple longer boards at most, because it would be the exceptional person that could gain an advantage from it.

peterp

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2016, 11:48:20 PM »
Reminds me of a sketch Trevor Noah did on South African government:"If the world is going this way....we'll go that way..." And no, this was not in reference to Mandela's legacy, rather our current governments penchant for punting coal and fracking in a country which has the most abundant sun and wind available anywhere in the world.

Classic tale of organizer who was swayed by one or two 150pound pro's.

It's one of those decisions where finding a single supporting argument is impossible.

baddog

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New 10'6" BOP standard, makes a lot of sense.
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2016, 12:15:39 PM »
I was thinking 11', but 10'6" is fine.  Sure, the race would be fractionally slower, but the actual and perceived differential based on rider size would be greatly reduced.  Should be cheaper, easier storage and transportation and a whole lot more surfable.  Bring it on.

ukgm

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2016, 12:35:20 AM »
I'm just worried that shit like this is going the make SUP (at least at the pro competitive level) go the way of windsurfing.

The answer is yes. There have been too many other sports that this has happened to and SUP doesn't seem to be showing any signs that would end up a different way.

surf4food

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Re: 12'6 vs 14ft..... again.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 11:44:50 AM »
It's back to "up to 14".  The powers that be re-considered. 

http://www.supracer.com/2016-pacific-paddle-games-board-classes/

 


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