Author Topic: 12'-6" Round Two  (Read 20822 times)

jrandy

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12'-6" Round Two
« on: June 08, 2016, 05:28:52 AM »
Hello!
I am making a second 12'-6" x 32 x thick board so I have one to use and to race against the first one I made for a buddy.
1.5# EPS + plywood stringer + GG so far
Foam was hot wired (rocker, split, and outline) with templates, stringer was cut oversized with an electric saber saw.
On the first board I cut away the deck so the sunken part had no sides or back all the way out the tail.
This time I would like to sink the deck and leave and edge on all 4 sides, to learn and to keep a little extra volume out back and another spot to lash gear.

Questions:
-Are there any tips and tricks to this as far as routing this out, rounded corners, glassing?

Another thought I had was to cut out the whole area and make some rounded strips and trim/cope it back together which is how I fixed some damage on the first one.

-Would running plain weave fiberglass cloth at a 45 degree angle help it drape into the sunken part?
Thanks!

http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

supuk

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 06:16:11 AM »
I used to carve out the sunken decks with a sander and 40 grit then serform as its to tight for a planner. I have never figured a way to glass the top in one go so I glass the standing area separate which is fairly easy. Perhaps twill weave would work better but I havnt ever seen surf glass in a twill.

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 10:32:06 AM »
I was contemplating a slight (1" -1-1/2") sunken deck on my next board. I was thinking of hot wiring the foil with the full thickness on deck. Then have a second hot wire template that cut the whole standing area down to my desired standing height careful to keep the top cut off in one piece with as clean a cut as possible> the put the top piece back in place with tooth picks/finish nails anything that will keep it in place while you hot wire out the plan shape.> After the plane shape is cut out shape your rails all the way up to the top edge of the cockpit.at that point the board will look as it has no recess deck.> When everthing else is shapped To 90% take out the tooth picks/finish nails and cut out the center of the top piece to your desired shape.> use epoxy/glass bubbles to glue in place (or gorilla glue).

That should make it a whole lot more precise and keep things simple. I dare say you could even glass the whole board before putting the extended sides back on to make glassing much easier, then glass the side rail on after the rest of the board was done.

TallDude

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 11:21:46 AM »
Be careful with that hotwire. That's some deadly toxic gas coming off that EPS when you melt it. I have had a bad first hand experience with this and won't use a hot wire anymore. Seriously be in a well ventilated area with fans. I'm not sure if even a carbon mask will completely filter the gas you're exposed to when you melt it.
I've researched this and it's a finger pointing game. No issue with handling EPS and only a warning that you can burn yourself using a hot wire or hot knife. But when you use the hot wire to melt EPS, that's something that is on you. The manufactures all defer to long lists of potential risks that you should take precautionary measures to protect yourself, without being specific about anything.   
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2016, 12:46:53 PM »
Be careful with that hotwire. That's some deadly toxic gas coming off that EPS when you melt it. I have had a bad first hand experience with this and won't use a hot wire anymore. Seriously be in a well ventilated area with fans. I'm not sure if even a carbon mask will completely filter the gas you're exposed to when you melt it.
I've researched this and it's a finger pointing game. No issue with handling EPS and only a warning that you can burn yourself using a hot wire or hot knife. But when you use the hot wire to melt EPS, that's something that is on you. The manufactures all defer to long lists of potential risks that you should take precautionary measures to protect yourself, without being specific about anything.   

Talldude...I'm looking at the picture on my I phone, It looks like he's using Expanded polystyrene...not Extruded polystyrene  ...(the worst of all is Divinycell).

If that is the case, with really good ventilation, I have  never experienced a problem with Expanded Polystyrene. I always cut mine ouside with a dual cartridge respirator though...
About 32 years ago I tried hot wiring some 6 mm Divinycell ...I can still smell it ... instant headache in seconds...never did that again...

surfcowboy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2016, 01:15:23 PM »
Man, if you want it clean, route the sides of the perimeter with some strips of 1X2 wood for guides (just tape them down.) Stop before getting to the corners.

Then, if it was me, for the rounded corners I'd look into the various sanding discs etc and find one that fits the radius of the corner you want and just dig that down and/or flow it to the bottom. (I'd test on scraps first.)

That should give you a smooth curve (you'll need to clean up the little transition to the flat sides) and then you can lay on your guides again and route the cross perimeters across the board to connect the corners.

Or just make a jig to guide the router and do the corners with that too.

For stuff like that I like machines and guides to start and then I can flow it with sand paper if necessary.

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2016, 01:54:03 PM »
If you want to sand any radius...either inside or outside take a piece of scrap EPS, cut an appropriate size block for the work your doing (full sheet or half sheet paper size/length is a good place to start) and the sand the EPS block to the desired radius...you can do any complex crossection shape you want. When finished carefully put a piece of 120 grit on the foam and you have your own custom radius.

First saw this done with custom wood bar rail in exclusive restaurant we built. The rail had a multi curve profile. Hand sanding without a formed block had the possibility of making it wavey which was unexceptable.  For a sup cockpit it will allows you to sand a radius that is biased to one side or the other instead of only having a symmetrical radius or an unfair free hand sanding technique. And you don't have to give some material supplier $25-$65 bucks for it either. Try it you'll like it.

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2016, 04:38:46 PM »
Thanks for all of the tips, hot wire safety and sanding expanded polystyrene.  The rocker is cut outside, plenty of airflow, two people, gloves and safety glasses.  I normally run a fan in the 'shop' (garage) and if the weather allows the door is open. I'll consider an organic vapor cartridge mask too.

With the stringer I am committed to using a router or saw to remove it.  Had I made a better plan I could have pre-cut the deck area out from the stringer.

Once the plywood is removed, I was wondering if I could use a large ball nose cutter to make the inside lower radius and the start of the sidewalls. I would probably use a template or guide. The upper edges inside and out should be accessible and hand sanding with the custom sanding block would work great there.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2016, 06:12:41 PM »
For next time...you might want to skip the stringer especially for a thick race board. I stopped using stringers three decades ago after experiencing de-lamination on the deck either side of the stringer....these were windsurf wave boards that I was torturing learing to loop. No issue with breakage when I ditched the stringers. Loads a Race SUP is highly unlikely to ever experience.

Having soft foam on either side of an immovable object does not end well...when you have a surfboard that's less than 2" thick and is basically a throw away you can go back to using stringers.

If you still feel the need, don't use plywood...if you are using  three ply, the center ply's grain is oriented vertically..,basically doing nothing. You would be better off getting some very thin sawn lumber and laminating it yourself so you have all the grain is oriented to run the length of the board.

It's all good...you will build a lot my more boards and you will pick up little golden  nuggets along the path in the never ending quest for your "perfect"'board. 

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2016, 04:23:46 PM »
Thanks SUPflorida. Not having to contemplate, split, precut, glue, jockey, clamp, swear at, and plane the SUP blank would save about a day's worth of time. I also worry about the blank being floppy on the stands until it sees some fiberglass and resin.

Otherwise, I do like me some stringers on surfamaboards...
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 08:31:15 PM »
I started the recess.

1. Hole drill stringer to avoid blowout
2. Rout outline-guided on the ends, semi guided on the rails, freehand in the corners
3. Rout out stringer, 3 passes
4. Rout ends towards middle make room for planer which did not work, belt guard got in way
5. Reset router from 1" to 3/4", waffle cut remaining foam, tear out chunks
6. Use pull saw, planer, surform, and torture board to smooth recess

It took a long time and there is foam everywhere in the garage. Next time I'll need to patent something quicker and cleaner.  I am starting to like SUPFlorida's hot wire and replace plan more and more...

http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2016, 04:50:28 AM »
Jrandy...nice job..."alota work" but you pulled it off like a pro.

Yea...I think the hot wire is an easier route....any time I can use a hot wire instead of saw cutting/routing/sanding I do...more accurate/faster/easier/quieter/less mess.

For next time....if you decide to stay with the router..It would have been nice to change bits on the pariferal cut to give you an integrated inside radius for your drop deck. As I'm sure you know, glass and/or carbon does not like to bend in/around tight corners...especially inside corners. You could use something like a 1/2" round nose or dish carving style router bit...if you have one available...they are about $30 if not.

Looking good...when you starting your 14' ?😉

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2016, 07:49:04 PM »
SUPFlorida, thanks for the stoke and advice.

It would have been nice to have done a fillet with the router. Even sweeter would have been a fillet and a taper out and then a round-over to the deck all in one pass. I have a couple ideas going in my head to soften the transitions.

Start a 14? LOL. I have 3 boards in various states to finish and another to start for family.

 
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

TallDude

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2016, 09:09:31 PM »
To keep the dust down when using a router to shape most of the board, here is my shaping box.  http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,14206.msg124839.html#msg124839
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2016, 03:06:17 PM »
TD, thanks for posting, I had forgotten about that one.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

 


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