Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil

[Beasho]

How much do you pay to fly?

[supuk]

Nobody has talked about paddles yet... but after years of cutting down our paddles to be shorter and shorter, won't we now need a super long one for a foiled dw board?

I noticed kai was using a adjustable, how high do we need to be above the water perhaps we don't need to be quite so high as the kites and boats he looks fairly happy when he is only 1' above the water.

[Admin]

My windsurf foil comes with 3 front wing sizes. Regular, for use with kites, or windsurfing in higher winds, or lighter sailors. My wife is using this wing for windsurfing.
A light wind wing for guys under 200 lbs wanting to go in 10. An extreme light wind wing for guys over 200 wanting to go in 10. All plug and play if you have a deep Tuttle box in a stock windsurfer.

DW, is there a reason all of the Windsurf boards have the straps positioned way out over the rails (race style) vs more centered (wave style)?

[Admin]

how high do we need to be above the water perhaps we don't need to be quite so high as the kites and boats he looks fairly happy when he is only 1' above the water.

I thought the opposite.  He is using the full foil height form pumping and is still tapping a lot.  When he is trimmed he is only about 1.5 feet up.  Looks like that is all the lift he is getting from that foil setup.  With a shorter mast he would likely be too low.

I bet they will whack another foot off the tail of that board to reduce tail taps. 

[DavidJohn]

My windsurf foil comes with 3 front wing sizes. Regular, for use with kites, or windsurfing in higher winds, or lighter sailors. My wife is using this wing for windsurfing.
A light wind wing for guys under 200 lbs wanting to go in 10. An extreme light wind wing for guys over 200 wanting to go in 10. All plug and play if you have a deep Tuttle box in a stock windsurfer.

DW, is there a reason all of the Windsurf boards have the straps positioned way out over the rails (race style) vs more centered (wave style)?

Mostly for going upwind.. and to help keep the rail down due to the lifting force of a long fin.. imo

[1tuberider]

I envision new board designs reflecting super narrow hulls, long enough to get enough paddle speed for lift.
Stability comes from the wing.
May need a quiver.

[Dwight (DW)]

DW, is there a reason all of the Windsurf boards have the straps positioned way out over the rails (race style) vs more centered (wave style)?

I think you are a windsurfer yourself, so I'm going to answer, assuming you're asking as it relates to foiling.

It's as simple as foil makers trying to market as plug and play in boards people already own. When it reality, those strap placements are not ideal. You can look at the boards Horue is designing and selling just for foiling to see where the straps should be. The front strap is normal, but the rear is not on the rail in a race position. It's moved well in to a bump and jump position.

Riding strapless, I'm finding my foot locations match what Horue is doing. I'm also finding my mast foot matches what I see Horue doing. It's much farther back than a normal windsurfer. So I've gone to a 10" mast track on the board I'm making for my wife right now. The reasons are the range of sails needed, 2m to 6.5 m, plus you gain more pitch control with the foot back. Pulling the rig back and pushing it forward is a technique. When you see people foiling windsurfers, they usually have odd body positioning. Leaning forward and goofy. The tracks need to be back more. Once you foil, you don't want to ride on the water much anymore. That's why 2m sails are needed.

[Admin]

Yup, I was just wondering if you could not use strap positions more like boards for kite foiling. Uni right near the nose and super reduced board.  Seems like you could waterstart in the straps, pump up and go. 

[blueplanetsurf]

Everyone I know that is into downwinders is pretty excited about the possibilities- endless glides! 
Jeff Chang and I went out this weekend to practice foil boarding on his kite foil board towing behind a jet ski and I can tell you that it is not easy AT ALL.  It's like learning a whole new sport.  We looked like kooks and had some pretty bad wipeouts. 
Falling on the foil can be dangerous.  My friend Sam Pae hit his head on the foil and had to get stitches when he tried to SUP on a foil board a few years ago.   So wearing a helmet and protective gear is a must when learning. 
After many tries we were able to "fly" the board for a bit, and come back down without crashing.  It's very sensitive to front and back movements.  Lean back a bit too much and you shoot up high and get catapulted.  The trick seems to be to get comfortable riding the board low in the water first at fairly low speeds, then putting a little pressure on the back foot to fly it just a bit and then lean forward to keep it flying low and level.  I can't wait to try it again, and hopefully soon on a downwinder.  I would definitely recommend learning how to foil behind a boat or ski first before attempting to use it on a SUP.   The foil we were using attaches to two standard fin boxes mounted parallel, not a Tuttle box. 

I found this tutorial had some helpful tips for learning to "fly" the board:
http://kitehydrofoil.com/index.php/how/controlling-height

[Dwight (DW)]

Yup, I was just wondering if you could not use strap positions more like boards for kite foiling. Uni right near the nose and super reduced board.  Seems like you could waterstart in the straps, pump up and go. 

   that is funny to a guy who foils!  You can't water start 80% of the time. BTW, I'm an expert at light wind water starts. I can grab the sail foot and crawl up in the lightest of wind. Years of wave sailing! The sails are just way too small for any given wind speed. Then you've got those knife blades under the board just waiting to slice you if you kick your feet to help lift that under powered sail.

The strap position probably won't work like the kite boards. My wing span is 32". The very light wind foil is ~36" span. You need some outboard leverage for the moments when it lifts the windward rail. But, then you don't want both feet out there for when it looses lift and can't support all your weight out there. You need to be able to move around some and have one foot out, one in, for complete control over the range of speeds and lift it throws at you.

[Dwight (DW)]

The trick seems to be to get comfortable riding the board low in the water first at fairly low speeds....

Exactly!  Just as my wife does it in this video.

BTW, doing it with a windsurfer is the easiest and safest of all methods to learn. If you know how to windsurf.

[southwesterly]

I just can't see foiling working here in Santa Cruz... We've got the wind and the waves, but we also have tons of kelp. And where there aren't kelp beds, there are lots of tiny kelpy bits and sea grass that would wrap around the foil. I might be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Ten years ago, I was the guy that said stand up paddling would never catch on.

Beasho's idea of getting into Mavericks from way outside sounds great as long as you don't get caught eating it in the impact zone. Can you imagine the carnage a 3 foot blade would do to you going over the falls in the pit on a twenty foot wave?

[Eagle]

Looks interesting but will wait until someone up here gets one and uses it on our DW run.  For us DW is pretty fun already - and very simple and straightforward. 

What happens when the wind drops?  With that much foil underwater - paddling will not be fast.

[peterwSUPr]

For those talking about other foil devices, here is one missing from the list - the Aqua Skipper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjDqiyEMOE
A friend of mine had one at a cottage and I tried it a few years ago, but I don't think it really upped my waterman cred.

As for the idea about 2 foils on a board, keep in mind that with a single foil the side to side balance is maintained by steering, just like on a bike.  If you can't steer it easily, it will need better stability than some that I've seen.  Kite hydrofoils have anhedral so the wing tips are lower and do not reach the surface, but dihedral (wing tips sloped upward more than in middle) will be more stable for a level board.

Peter

[supuk]

It would be interesting to see if you could make it pump like one of those foils or like a skateboard