Author Topic: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil  (Read 92062 times)

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2016, 08:17:56 AM »

The other Go Foil products look to be modular, so I am wondering if this might have multi sport possibilities.  That would make it pretty interesting.

There seems to be 3 key factors affecting what works for what sports.

1) Where the front wing is located. For all the sports, the front wing goes between your feet. On the windsurfer, the rig weight plays into it too.
2) The lift designed into the wing.
3) The speed a wing was designed to operate at. The higher performance wings feel lift-less without mad skills and the ability to ride fast.

My windsurf foil comes with 3 front wing sizes. Regular, for use with kites, or windsurfing in higher winds, or lighter sailors. My wife is using this wing for windsurfing.
A light wind wing for guys under 200 lbs wanting to go in 10. An extreme light wind wing for guys over 200 wanting to go in 10. All plug and play if you have a deep Tuttle box in a stock windsurfer.

Considering my foil is designed to lift weight similar to a downwind board, and lift at lower wind speeds, there is no doubt in my mind, windsurf foils and downwind foils can be the same design. In fact, I strongly suggest Alex start locating his wings to be plug and play on standard windsurfers. Then locate the foil on downwind boards wherever it needs to be to make the windsurf version work. Dual use, wider market.

Windsurf foiling is going to go off in the coming years!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:20:21 AM by DW »

Piros

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2016, 12:52:57 AM »
I plan to build a foiled DW board this summer, different design in mind. I plan to use the board as the foil fuselage.  Retractable front foil, shorter rear foil--a little deeper than a standard fin.

Have been waiting to see your post on this Bill . I'm really interested in building one. This is a reply from a Seabreeze post what are your thoughts on this:-

Proper foil design is largely governed by the Reynolds number (a calculation) for the foil and what you want from it (high lift or low drag). The Reynolds number depends a lot on the speed of the object in question, so a supersonic jet fighter will have a different Reynolds number to a 10 seat passenger aircraft and hence their wing sections are very different. The same applies here. Similarly, the foil will need to change depending on how much it has to lift. So if Kai Lenny is 60kg wringing wet, an 85kg paddler isn't going to see the same performance on the same foil arrangement.

After reading Travis Grant post on Facebook trying to ride Kai's set up it's definitely heaps harder than it looks and a production foil won't suit us bigger blokes.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 01:01:01 AM by Piros »
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surfcowboy

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2016, 02:38:59 AM »
I'm in on the build too. I don't really care for flat paddling but a DW or coastal board tuned to my size with a foil option for windy days could be interesting. SupUK is doing some real homework but I'm interested in the lower, more boat-like dual setup as seen on Swaylocks with body boards rather than the airplane style seen here.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #78 on: May 05, 2016, 03:04:17 AM »
Just watched the Kai video again. His rear foot is right on top of that Tuttle box. That's where my foot is too, on windsurf foil.

If my darn rib wasn't broken, I'd have done a downwinder on my windsurf foil already.

You can be sure I will when I get better.

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #79 on: May 05, 2016, 04:35:06 AM »
J or C foils up front plus a moth style rudder foil in back could be tuned for incredible stability and silly steering abilities.  There are so many variations to play with.  In relation to sailing, kiting, windsurfing, tow, airchair foiling applications we have the lowest top speed, heaviest gear, and the lowest power input (by a lot). Is the kit designed for those higher power sports the best?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvlS-4t54cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh_RhkejWLw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAAnZIgj8o
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 05:48:52 AM by Admin »

supuk

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #80 on: May 05, 2016, 06:23:51 AM »
What length do we think Kai's board has been chopped down to? 11-12ft?

Beasho

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #81 on: May 05, 2016, 06:39:57 AM »
A few questions:

1) Will a Standard Tuttle Box work for these foils?
        How much deeper is a full tuttle box?

2) How hard is a full Tuttle box installation?
        Where do we get the tuttle boxes?

3) Combination of Foil and Electric Bike - KaBOOM! Lightbulb moment
        I am looking at this as a means to potentially catch BIG, BIG open ocean swell.  e.g. Mavericks 2 miles out to sea.  Come flying at the lineup from the horizon and then go wide left or wide right, never actually pissing anyone off but staying on any wave you chose, well wide of the bowl.   

We used to do this on windsurfers with big open ocean swell.  You could line up on a 15 - 20 foot wave 1 mile out, pinch very high up wind riding the wave to the spot where it would break and then chose when to bottom turn (e.g. North Davenport, CA reef).  It was a free ride up wind with all the control on when to make the drop. 

The advantage Kai has is that wind swell is in fact quite slow (maybe 8 - 14 mph).  This means he is actually able to pump up onto the first swell under his own power and take it from there.  However, big open ocean swell travels at speeds of 18 - 30 mph.  You may never be able to get up to speed enough without a catalyst.  Those videos just showed what a hybrid electric could do to get you on to the swell.  You need an efficient little burst of energy and then it's off to never never land.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 06:45:48 AM by Beasho »

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #82 on: May 05, 2016, 07:18:46 AM »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #83 on: May 05, 2016, 07:43:06 AM »
A few questions:

1) Will a Standard Tuttle Box work for these foils?
        How much deeper is a full tuttle box?


Probably not, because some deep Tuttle boxes fail when installed in stock boards. The F4 guys warn about this. In one photo my wife took of me crashing, I can see the mast is bent a lot during it. Big loads I think.

A few questions:

2) How hard is a full Tuttle box installation?
        Where do we get the tuttle boxes?


www.fiberglasssupply.com has the deep Tuttle. Funny thing about the Tuttle box design, it's the same whether deep or not. If the board builder doesn't recess the deck screws, then it most likely fits a deep Tuttle fin. Unfortunately, most builders do recess the screws. The box is just an infinite tapered tunnel, either 4" deep or 4 3/4" deep. Designed to be installed in a pass through hole in the board, then trimmed flush at the deck. The fin base itself is only 2 3/4" tall for a deep Tuttle and 2" for a regular Tuttle. This is how the authentic Tuttle boxes are. The Chinook Tuttle will not work.

A few questions:

The advantage Kai has is that wind swell is in fact quite slow (maybe 8 - 14 mph).  This means he is actually able to pump up onto the first swell under his own power and take it from there.  However, big open ocean swell travels at speeds of 18 - 30 mph.  You may never be able to get up to speed enough without a catalyst. 

Any movement, lightens the board, more movement lightens it more. Think of the foil acting like a plane up assist. So you can get it going faster than you might think. Then once it breaks the surface, its speed increases a lot.

supuk

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2016, 08:14:46 AM »
Dw what's up with the chinook deep tuttle? I havnt seen one but was going to order some as that's all I can find here.

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #85 on: May 05, 2016, 09:00:16 AM »
As for origins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tst5dTveO8

A hydrofoil designed (not patented) by Sam Bradfield...and, marketed by Harken, sold around 50 foils back in the mid-80's...the foils were bolted into the daggerboard boxes of Windsurfer Standards...

https://youtu.be/Zcjhu190U3A

I remember seeing Rich Miller windsurfing with a foil in the SF Bay Area back in the 90's...
Mahalos...{:~)

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clay

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #86 on: May 05, 2016, 10:00:40 AM »
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 10:04:54 AM by clay »
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #87 on: May 05, 2016, 11:27:20 AM »
A sport site I visit frequently just had an article about the board. The site covers mainly the big league sports with the occasional action sports article. First time I've ever seen anything about SUP. Cool to see the all the attention the board is getting. Here's the article: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/this-is-the-future-of-paddleboarding-and-its-terrifying 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #88 on: May 05, 2016, 11:59:20 AM »
Dw what's up with the chinook deep tuttle? I havnt seen one but was going to order some as that's all I can find here.

The top surface is molded into the box, so its a fixed depth. Shallow. I've not heard of a deep Tuttle Chinook.

Beasho

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Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil
« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2016, 01:21:46 PM »
Expensive  . . . . $69 WTF

 


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