Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil

[blueplanetsurf]

Kai seems to be pumping the foil in the video.

[Admin]

Yup, I was just wondering if you could not use strap positions more like boards for kite foiling. Uni right near the nose and super reduced board.  Seems like you could waterstart in the straps, pump up and go. 

   that is funny to a guy who foils!  You can't water start 80% of the time. BTW, I'm an expert at light wind water starts. I can grab the sail foot and crawl up in the lightest of wind. Years of wave sailing! The sails are just way too small for any given wind speed. Then you've got those knife blades under the board just waiting to slice you if you kick your feet to help lift that under powered sail.

The strap position probably won't work like the kite boards. My wing span is 32". The very light wind foil is ~36" span. You need some outboard leverage for the moments when it lifts the windward rail. But, then you don't want both feet out there for when it looses lift and can't support all your weight out there. You need to be able to move around some and have one foot out, one in, for complete control over the range of speeds and lift it throws at you.

Wait, you are uphauling most of the time?  What is the downside of using a sail closer to what you would typically be using with traditional gear?

[southwesterly]

For those talking about other foil devices, here is one missing from the list - the Aqua Skipper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjDqiyEMOE
A friend of mine had one at a cottage and I tried it a few years ago, but I don't think it really upped my waterman cred.

As for the idea about 2 foils on a board, keep in mind that with a single foil the side to side balance is maintained by steering, just like on a bike.  If you can't steer it easily, it will need better stability than some that I've seen.  Kite hydrofoils have anhedral so the wing tips are lower and do not reach the surface, but dihedral (wing tips sloped upward more than in middle) will be more stable for a level board.

Peter

Not to get this thread offtrack, but would't the Aqua Skipper sink like a rock if you stopped jumping up and down on it?

[rodeo]

I wonder if you could start that skipper thing from in the water.

It doesn't look like it.

[Piros]

Great video of the US Navy foil experiments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2sSRBMPqs&sns=em

[supuk]

interesting stuff and shows a lot of different solutions. It will be interesting to see how they develop for the dw application as we need more than just straight line performance. perhaps a want system like a moth could be incorporated.

[peterwSUPr]

The aqua skipper does have some flotation in it so it sinks maybe 2/3 under water.  I was told I was quite good first time, and made it maybe 100 feet that day on my longest run before losing the proper motion and sinking.  They are awkward to swim with.  Starting from in the water?  Not a chance.  Pushing off a low dock with the thing in the water was the easy(ish) way to start.

Peter

[Dwight (DW)]

Wait, you are uphauling most of the time?  What is the downside of using a sail closer to what you would typically be using with traditional gear?

Yes, uphualing! Because of this, we replaced our entire sail quiver to much lighter models.

I use 5.7m when 7.5-8.5 is normal. 5.0 when 6.5-7.0 is normal, etc.  My foils is designed for light wind, not racing. You need to switch to a racing foil to even come close to using normal sail sizes, and even then, you'll always be on something smaller.

With too much kite or sail power, you can't keep foil buried in water. It will lift and break surface. Big crash! There are limits to how well you can hold it down with forward weight. The wing must be designed for X speed at X lift. I know kiters who still have to put their foils away when when gets strong. Very good foilers who don't want to ride on the water, but their foils won't allow them to handle the wind.

Blade quivers (for your foil) are the future in my opinion.

BTW, blade design is still in the early days. Some foils have way more wind range than others.

[Admin]

Good info DW, thank you.  I'd like to give it a go this summer.  I thought the foils were already set up for foil quivers.  Is that not common?

The biggest sail we have is 5.0.  If that would get me foiling in 6.0 conditions, that would be a nice way to start and learn the foil.  Do I still need one of these ultra wide boards to make that work or are their guys using more normal (wave board) widths for foiling?

[Dwight (DW)]

I thought the foils were already set up for foil quivers.  Is that not common?

A few have an a single optional blade. It's still not universal. Some reinvent their foil design with each release.

The biggest sail we have is 5.0.  If that would get me foiling in 6.0 conditions, that would be a nice way to start and learn the foil.  Do I still need one of these ultra wide boards to make that work or are their guys using more normal (wave board) widths for foiling?

5.0 will definitely foil nicely in 6.0 conditions.  For board sizing I don't know. I'll refer you to the sizes offered by a windsurf foil brand in France

70L- 169x68cm - Deep tuttle
90L - 175x73cm - Deep tuttle
105L - 180x75cm - Deep tuttle
85L - 191x69cm - Deep tuttle 
95L - 200x73cm - Deep tuttle 
110L - 210x75.8cm - Deep tuttle 
120L - 215x77.5cm - Deep tuttle 

[Dwight (DW)]

I shot another video last night. This one is really good at showing what the learning experience will be like.

When you see my wife crash, notice how the windward rail fails to support her as she sails into a wind hole. When the foils slow, it becomes less stable. That makes pumping a tricky skill. This is when strapless rules. Just jump clear of that mess. Lots of guys sprain ankles with slow twisting falls using straps.

She's trying to foil up no higher than needed. This is what you want to do when learning. Trying to foil high up, is beginner mistake number one. We see guys do this all the time.  Crash, Explode 

The ideal foiling height is mid mast. More margin for error. More margin to pump the foil. If the waves don't slap the bottom, killing momentum, it's high enough.

The speed she is windsurfing is not real. All that speed is from the foil. Without the foil under her, she would be plowing water, going nowhere. The only other person attempting to windsurf, is another small women on a 7.2m, part time planing. My wife is on a 5.7m.

[peterwSUPr]

DW, what kind of foil are you using on the windsurfer?  I see you are using the regular finbox at the back, and am wondering if your setup has a longer distance from the front wing to the mast, or whether your mast rakes forward underwater, or if you have to stand further back.  From what I hear if using the main finbox you need to get the wing further forward than the typical setup on a kiteboard.

Thx,
Peter

[Dwight (DW)]

DW, what kind of foil are you using on the windsurfer?  I see you are using the regular finbox at the back, and am wondering if your setup has a longer distance from the front wing to the mast, or whether your mast rakes forward underwater, or if you have to stand further back.  From what I hear if using the main finbox you need to get the wing further forward than the typical setup on a kiteboard.

Thx,
Peter

Mast is swept forward, so wing doesn't have to mount with longer distance at fuselage.

[Weasels wake]

Here is a clip showing some advanced windsurf foiling, sorry about the overly dramatic music. 
https://youtu.be/iCFNTssbqV4

[SUP Sports ®]

The kite foilers that I have seen around here doing haven't been all that convincing...considering how good they are at unstrapped/unhooked kiteboarding in waves...I mean they are doing it fine going back and forth...really high AOA...etc...but, look like they are actually going slower than they would on their regular kiteboards...

That said, this guy's smooth jibes without touching down is what prompted me to order up for the light wind days...



The foil builders have been backed up...I think mine is finally shipping this week...