Author Topic: TRYING to think outside the box  (Read 43560 times)

photofr

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2016, 01:23:20 PM »
Interestingly enough, the hull of the Coreban pictured reminds me a lot of the Allstar from Starboard. The additional quad fins may have a hidden purpose, but I believe that it would really slow the board.

Very interesting design, nice stretch of imagination, so kuddos for that! Perhaps too many new factors introduced at once - I don't know. The Speedboard still wins (in my opinion), but even then, I would have made two modifications to the Speedboard:
1. More volume (in nose height, not nose width).
2. Rudder (to make it even that much more versatile).

So far, Speedboard and Coreban have won GOLD - at least with their imagination and thinking outside the box.
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2016, 12:58:43 AM »
Quote
when 14' became the limit. In other words, racing killed innovation long before we really found out what the optimal dimensions of a performance board are

Same think happened in competition kayaking which slowed profession until Playboating happened.

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2016, 01:01:39 AM »
Wasn't the Starboard Point, perhaps the first production downwind board, 14-7 in length (or something)? Pretty close to what you want...

Think so - and I've got one!

It's like a mini f16 which I've also got right now.

I've moved away from all the planned strategic marketing... Any other boards I get will be homemade or custom made by another person.

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Area 10

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2016, 01:24:42 AM »
What we need more than innovation in design is innovation in construction. Boards built the way we currently build them are far too expensive and far too fragile.

The vast majority of boards are handmade by some poor worker in Thailand, using materials and techniques that haven't changed much for about the last 40 years. It's hard to think of another area of manufacturing where so little innovation has occurred over such a long time.

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2016, 01:29:30 AM »
Actually - the build has changed loads. Epoxy was a new thing in boards only about 16 years ago. Before that - it was Clark Foam and polyester.... Then surf tech (as far as I know) started doing EPS Epoxy construction which is very different from polyester.
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2016, 01:37:40 AM »
I wish folk would stop using the term 'stable' .....


No boat is just 'stable' or 'unstable' :)

Makes us look silly and uneducated to the rest of the paddling community.

UK, please elaborate?

This info has been around longer than Ponobill  ;D  ;D ;D


"Secondary stability, also known as reserve stability, is a boat or ship's ability to right itself at large angles of lateral tilt, as opposed to primary or initial stability, the boat's tendency to stay laterally upright when tilted to low (<10°) angles."
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2016, 01:42:55 AM »
So folks - no water craft is simply - stable or not stable...

A board that is stable for a beginner on glassy flat water will be unstable in a sea and vice versa.

So - to me, a board that feels wobbly when i get on it is very stable in the seas that i will be using it.


1.) Wobbly on the flat on initial standing = low primary stability, high secondary stability. 

2.) Solid on flat water on initial standing = High primary stability, low secondary stability.

Generally speaking - hols with flat bottoms are no2 and hulls with more arched bottoms are no1.

Of course all of that applies when displacing not planning.

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photofr

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2016, 02:39:21 AM »
For the construction, I believe it's an entire different "can of worms". I feel bad, because I know people invest so much into one type of construction. For instance, someone working with resin and Clark foam in 1988 may have a rude awakening when switching to Epoxy and Styrofoam in 1995. The expanses can be tremendous, and could break a business.

Ideally, TODAY, we should see new designs released for the public every 2 to 4 years, but construction methods should also be very different: more efficient, working off of molds, and therefore thinking again outside the box.

Now go tell this to a company that has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in making Styrofoam... so no doubt, changes will be slow.
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Area 10

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2016, 07:15:33 AM »
Actually - the build has changed loads. Epoxy was a new thing in boards only about 16 years ago. Before that - it was Clark Foam and polyester.... Then surf tech (as far as I know) started doing EPS Epoxy construction which is very different from polyester.
The switch from poly to epoxy and different foams are just minor changes. Methods like Bounce use are major ones.

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2016, 08:41:01 AM »
Actually - the build has changed loads. Epoxy was a new thing in boards only about 16 years ago. Before that - it was Clark Foam and polyester.... Then surf tech (as far as I know) started doing EPS Epoxy construction which is very different from polyester.
The switch from poly to epoxy and different foams are just minor changes. Methods like Bounce use are major ones.

Great thread.

I am a big fan of how Bounce makes their boards, they are strong as heck and create virtually no extra waste.  But that particular innovation in construction runs counter to innovations in design.  If I'm not mistaken, each time you tweak a shape you'd have to build an entire new mold for however many 10's of thousands of dollars. 

I wonder if one could use his proprietary, super flexible plastic-y resin to glass a board traditionally...

On that note, super durable boards are now hitting the market from other brands - Focus SUP & Pau Hana both offer them, now.  No clue what the technology behind them is... 

 

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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2016, 12:49:15 AM »
Actually - the build has changed loads. Epoxy was a new thing in boards only about 16 years ago. Before that - it was Clark Foam and polyester.... Then surf tech (as far as I know) started doing EPS Epoxy construction which is very different from polyester.
The switch from poly to epoxy and different foams are just minor changes. Methods like Bounce use are major ones.

Not really - I would argue that the advent of epoxy is what enabled SUP to develop in its modern form. Lighter and stronger.
And the actual build methods are different too.

There's loads of different construction around that didn't exist 20 years ago.

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yugi

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2016, 01:36:40 AM »
Actually - the build has changed loads. Epoxy was a new thing in boards only about 16 years ago. Before that - it was Clark Foam and polyester…. Then surf tech (as far as I know) started doing EPS Epoxy construction which is very different from polyester.

Just FYI I had an epoxy board 16 years before that (yes, 32 years ago).

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2016, 03:29:35 AM »
There's always the exception to the rule..

I guess it means the whole thread and all other threads are just meaningless crap?

Just a load old geezas chatting about there own opinions, experinces, points of view etc etc.....
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Bean

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2016, 08:37:43 AM »
I guess it means the whole thread and all other threads are just meaningless crap?

But, only from a purely scientific perspective.  I like to think that as a group, the Zone brings an integrated view of stand up from physics to voodoo...

photofr

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Re: TRYING to think outside the box
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2016, 08:53:13 AM »
REF.: Physics to voodoo...
Surely, SUP shapers aren't too afraid of physics, but I have a hard time imagining that "thinking outside the box" could be as foreign as voodoo.

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