Author Topic: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6  (Read 20640 times)

photofr

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An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« on: February 23, 2016, 01:36:35 AM »
I am totally blown away: my first tests reveal that my 2016 inflatable board is faster than the fastest 12’6 rigid board I own. Three of us are ready to give it the “acid test” but we are waiting for three more. These tests take quite a bit of time to organize, and take about ½ a day of paddling – so bare with us.

In the meantime, here’s what I have found using two boards:
12’6 x 24” Starboard Sprint – Rigid Carbon Board.
14’ x 28” Starboard Racer – Inflatable Board.

8 Runs: 2 on flats and 2 sidewind with each board. 
The iSUP came ahead – each time – and this blew me away.

Next?
I’d like to see the results with several other paddlers, including someone in the 80-90 kilo range, but in my opinion, this is also where the 14’ will shine even more. Can’t wait for the weather to warm up a bit.

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Area 10

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 04:46:28 AM »
You shouldn't be surprised. Length matters more than anything else when it comes to speed. And many people are faster on a wider more stable board than on a narrower tippier one. Stability allows you to get a good stroke rhythm, adjust your feet positioning to suit, every stroke can be technically as perfect as you can do, and paddle hand switches tend to be faster. Over short distance time trials in particular these factors can make all the difference.

Last week a friend and I time trialled two 12-6s. One was 30.5" wide, and the other was a much lighter construction 26" wide board. 2 min sprints in perfectly flat water. The fastest time, by a tenth of a second, was on the 26" wide board. But the slowest time, by three seconds, was also on that board. That tells you all you need to know: narrow boards are theoretically a little faster (but we are talking fractions of 1 percent), but tippy boards can lead to inconsistent performance due to checks of balance, half-missed strokes etc. 

A fairer test would be the 14x28 iSUP against a 14x28 hard board. 

bef

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 08:33:37 AM »
You would think dragging that exposed fin box on the inflatable would make the biggest difference!  Rounded shapes are supposed to be slipperiest, and the inflatable would have that even on the back.  Would a rigid surf better or downwind better due to the soft rails in back?

Still pretty cool, and agree on comparing the same size boards.  But still awesome what the inflatables are doing.
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

Area 10

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 08:43:25 AM »
Would a rigid surf better or downwind better due to the soft rails in back?
Yes. And because of increased rigidity. The noses of inflatables tend to "stick" to the water in quite a disconcerting way when surfing or downwinding, and the problem gets worse the longer the board.

kayadogg

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 09:47:49 AM »
Interesting video on some new technology being added to inflatables. Wonder if this will actually help in downwind situations as they claim it will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8noCLyMwfQU


Area 10

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 10:47:13 AM »
Two thoughts on that Hala video:

1. It looks like they are doing basically the same as ULI have been doing for years? ULI have been using Kevlar stringers since way back when.

2. Hardly a convincing demonstration video in terms of board rigidity. The guys look like they are bouncing on a trampoline! If they'd bounced any higher they'd have hit the roof.


capobeachboy

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 12:16:08 PM »
You would think dragging that exposed fin box on the inflatable would make the biggest difference!  Rounded shapes are supposed to be slipperiest, and the inflatable would have that even on the back.  Would a rigid surf better or downwind better due to the soft rails in back?

Still pretty cool, and agree on comparing the same size boards.  But still awesome what the inflatables are doing.

I always thought a rounded rail would be faster for race/downwind inflatables but Taku from ULI Japan orders all his boards with the Wiki Rail (which we developed for surfing) giving it a hard edge for the last couple feet of the board. He & his kids are national champions so there must be something there. I know it does add some stability and helps you go narrower. 

I didn't watch the Hala video but boards with better rebound to flex are faster as there's less wasted energy and that has long been ULIs sweet spot. The problem is it adds weight but we are in the midst of testing & developing something that will be a huge improvement.
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deepmud

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 01:49:47 PM »
http://distressedmullet.com/2016/02/21/hala-first-to-incorporate-itc-inflatable-composite-technology-into-their-inflatable-sups/

from what I read above, Hala is using a "licensed" technology of a flat composite fiber/plastic bottom - "200%" more rigid - not that they show a side-by-side of one with and one without with a static load - but maybe as Capobeachboy says it's a "better rebound" as much as anything?

Area 10 - not arguing the point - trying to understand - why to inflatables stick? I figured with their tendency to bend the front would "bend up" and float - but maybe not? Do they get caught and bent down into the wave in front maybe?

This from a "I got to downbreeze once for a couple miles and it was fun" point of view :D

EDIT: thoughts on "fair" - if an Isup is in any way comparable to a rigid board - what's not fair about it? A 14' and 12' Isup both roll up into a backpack and a rigid board won't - it's not about "fair" it's "my rollup board might let me keep up with my friends who have place to store a rigid board" kind of equation.

Maybe for race classes a 14' Isup being allowed to race a 12'6' rigid would be "unfair".....or maybe not.....

« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 01:54:42 PM by deepmud »

photofr

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 02:16:23 PM »
It would be nice if "classes" were all eliminated for SUP (like kayak length restrictions abolished for surfskis) - but then I would be dreaming :)

I was trying to point out three things:
1) I was actually very surprised that the iSUP was faster, even though it was a 14' board compared to a 12'6 rigid.
2) People here in Europe have storage problems like you could not imagine (they are always complaining about it). The rider who just wants to have fun could get himself or herself a 14' board and totally keep up with his/her buddies on 12'6 rigid.
3) Clearly, the iSUP market has made huge progress this year; specifically, Starboard has produced an iSUP that has opened plenty of opportunities.

BONUS: There are also people complaining about money and the cost of equipment (perhaps more obvious in France) - the iSUP is yet another option that is now totally feasible. Again, worth looking into!
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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 02:40:55 PM »
Yes, inflatables are a solution to many of the ownership woes of SUPing. I have two, and they are unbeatable for family fun and travel.

The reason they stick when downwinding is because they aren't rigid enough. There is a tension between the water surface and the board surface that you have to overcome if you are going to plane. Water releases best from sharp edges, which is why surfboards have hard rails at the back. Inflatables generally have soft rails, and are not rigid enough to respond quickly to changes in foot position of the rider in order to achieve correct trim to encourage planing. The board literally bends in the middle as you move towards the tail, with the nose staying stuck to the water. It is hard to see how anything that can roll up into a ball will ever be rigid enough to prevent this happening. But no doubt there is a clever engineer out there who could work out how to do it using some kinda materials that only bend one way, or multi-chambered construction or somesuch.

photofr

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 03:06:12 PM »
Yeah, sure… there's no arguing that for downwind, iSUP still have room to grow. There's a lot more to Stand Up Paddling than just Downwind. Everyone wants to surf / go DW, but reality may prove to be very different.

I estimate 2% of all paddlers on earth to actually paddle Downwind.
I estimate another 3% paddling Downbreeze.

There are plenty of pros / cons to also consider.
An iSUP can still go upwind, on flats, sidewind, downwind, but my rigid board will not fit in a car trunk.
A quality iSUP is very competitive.

I just wouldn't be surprised to see more competitive riders using an iSUP for racing in 2016.
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Quickbeam

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 04:02:41 PM »
Yeah, sure… there's no arguing that for downwind, iSUP still have room to grow. There's a lot more to Stand Up Paddling than just Downwind. Everyone wants to surf / go DW, but reality may prove to be very different.

I estimate 2% of all paddlers on earth to actually paddle Downwind.
I estimate another 3% paddling Downbreeze.

There are plenty of pros / cons to also consider.
An iSUP can still go upwind, on flats, sidewind, downwind, but my rigid board will not fit in a car trunk.
A quality iSUP is very competitive.

I just wouldn't be surprised to see more competitive riders using an iSUP for racing in 2016.


Sorry, not sure I agree that inflatables go upwind. I've got a pretty decent inflatable, and going upwind is not fun in any way, shape or form.
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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 04:09:20 PM »
photofr - iSUP sales in Europe number 10x those of hard board sales. So you don't have to be convincing anyone that iSUPs are useful. Rather, it is hard board sales that need protecting. I went to a big trade demo event recently and there was virtually nothing but iSUPs on display. If that is the future, then soon there will be hardly any hard boards being imported into many markets. Then pretty much all racing will be on inflatables by default. Many retailers near me have essentially given up on hard boards. Too expensive, take up too much showroom space, too fragile, too hard to sell.

So, if you detect a little weariness sometimes from people in regard to iSUPs, it might not be about scepticism about their utility. It might be because they are like cuckoos, displacing hard boards left, right and centre until they are the only option available. And that would be a shame because they are all essentially very similar, limited in their designs, and pretty awful for what only a small proportion of us may do, but that we are very passionate about.

I owned the second ever inflatable SUP in Europe (I imported an ULI long before virtually anyone here knew that inflatables existed). But in using them all this time, while I'm still amazed at how easy they make casual SUPing, I still want to use my hard boards more often, even though they are fragile, expensive, and difficult to transport. They provide a different paddłing experience - and usually a better one. Plus, hard boards are safer: if you stray far from shore and you iSUP goes pop you have a potentially life-threatening situation on your hands.

But iSUPs are a great way to make SUPing accessible to the masses. Just make sure they wear lifejackets.

spookini

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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 06:33:21 PM »
...we are in the midst of testing & developing something that will be a huge improvement.

Said every SUP manufacturer, ever.  Keep me posted!

Area.. you forgot to mention the clear-and-present danger of flying fish strikes.  Oh wait...
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,26790.msg279872/topicseen.html#msg279872

At least we know that DW'ing on hard boards is safe.  DJ's videos taught me that.
No need for a life jacket there.  Keep calm and paddle on!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 06:35:00 PM by spookini »
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Do sharks attack?  Hope not
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Re: An Inflatable - faster than a 12’6
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 07:01:30 PM »
Spook - try and find those pictures that were posted on the forum that showed a flying fish that had actually broken right through the hull of a hollow board. The Maui guys said it wasn't that uncommon. But the point I was making was that all manner of unlikely and unforeseeable crap happens at sea. I wasn't at all saying that a flying fish attack was likely, I was using it as an example of something that seems implausibly unlikely but happens nevertheless. So, with the greatest respect, you are misrepresenting the point I was making.

SUPing is inherently risky. But SUPing on an inflatable is more risky. More things can cause an inflatable to sink than a foam filled hard board. But we've done this one to death already. I was watching Offshore's video of their iSUP downwind, wondering how easy it would be to paddle two people to shore on one board if the valve of one leaked. At least that is one concern you don't have with a hard board, even if not using an appropriate leash can still get you into trouble whatever you are paddling as DJ has kindly demonstrated convincingly twice.

 


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