Author Topic: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons  (Read 5203 times)

FloridaWindSUP

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Marine Biologist, Riviera Paddlesurf Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • James' Blog
Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« on: December 01, 2015, 06:27:38 AM »
I've tracked my SUP racing performance meticulously since I started in summer 2014. Now I've made a humongous blog post showing the changes and discussing gear, training, and other stuff that helped me progress. Looking forward to trying some new things this season to get above the plateau I'm on now. I'd be curious to hear y'all's comments and suggestions.

http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2015/11/how-to-get-pretty-good-at-sup-racing-in.html

14x23 Riviera RP
14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon
11'8 Exocet WindSUP
10'4 Angulo WindSUP
...and a bunch of windsurf stuff

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2016, 02:20:19 AM »
I've tracked my SUP racing performance meticulously since I started in summer 2014. Now I've made a humongous blog post showing the changes and discussing gear, training, and other stuff that helped me progress. Looking forward to trying some new things this season to get above the plateau I'm on now. I'd be curious to hear y'all's comments and suggestions.

http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2015/11/how-to-get-pretty-good-at-sup-racing-in.html
Do you record heart rate too ? If so, divide the heart rate by your speed and replot that graph. You might gain some interesting insight.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2016, 10:10:30 AM »
Performance in SUP racing, and almost any paddle sport except perhaps K1 sprint, is fundamentally driven by weight. To some degree it's more correctly power to weight ratio but weight is the most important factor. Better board, better paddle, better stroke--all contribute to performance. But a heavy paddler is slower than an "equivalent" lighter paddler even if their power to weight ratios are the same. If you want to go faster, lose weight and keep as much muscle as you can. But mostly lose weight.

I did the calculations for all that some time ago. I need to dig it up. Useful stuff to look at every so often.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

FloridaWindSUP

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Marine Biologist, Riviera Paddlesurf Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • James' Blog
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2016, 11:06:24 AM »
Performance in SUP racing, and almost any paddle sport except perhaps K1 sprint, is fundamentally driven by weight. To some degree it's more correctly power to weight ratio but weight is the most important factor. Better board, better paddle, better stroke--all contribute to performance. But a heavy paddler is slower than an "equivalent" lighter paddler even if their power to weight ratios are the same. If you want to go faster, lose weight and keep as much muscle as you can. But mostly lose weight.

I did the calculations for all that some time ago. I need to dig it up. Useful stuff to look at every so often.

Thanks for the tip. I'm pretty slim already at 5'10, 167 lbs, ~12% body fat. But I'm definitely less muscular and lean than the one super-tough guy who still beats me in our local races. So that's probably a good area to focus on for improvement. In the last month or two I've added in strength training (squats, deadlifts, military press, pushups, pullups), so hopefully I'll start to see some benefits of that. I'm also doing about two scoops of protein powder per day to make sure I'm getting enough material to build up the muscle.
14x23 Riviera RP
14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon
11'8 Exocet WindSUP
10'4 Angulo WindSUP
...and a bunch of windsurf stuff

FloridaWindSUP

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
  • Marine Biologist, Riviera Paddlesurf Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • James' Blog
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2016, 11:48:47 AM »
Ok, I updated my sup speeds plot. Some of the variation is due to the fact that it's not always the exact same course being run. I.e., in the most recent runs the course has had three 180 degree buoy turns, whereas most of the earlier data is from runs with just one or two buoy turns. Also, some of the runs were races involving drafting, etc. rather than pure time trials. And the was a lot of current in the river from January - March because of El Nino rains.
14x23 Riviera RP
14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon
11'8 Exocet WindSUP
10'4 Angulo WindSUP
...and a bunch of windsurf stuff

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2016, 04:08:53 AM »
Ok, I updated my sup speeds plot. Some of the variation is due to the fact that it's not always the exact same course being run. I.e., in the most recent runs the course has had three 180 degree buoy turns, whereas most of the earlier data is from runs with just one or two buoy turns. Also, some of the runs were races involving drafting, etc. rather than pure time trials. And the was a lot of current in the river from January - March because of El Nino rains.

The dataset sample isn't scientifically that robust but its interesting to see that at first glance, the narrow 22 you have been using isn't much (if any) faster than the 25 you had. Rather than the board, possibly a balancing act too far ?

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2016, 08:41:14 AM »
Interesting to see the progression. I'd say you are definitely bumping up against some upper limit, and changing boards isn't helping much, though the jury is still out on your newest one. To be competitive as an open class racer in the 40-59  14' you need to be in the range of 10 to 11kph. The winner of the PPG open class distance race 40-59 was Rand Carter with 49:36.3. Assuming that 6 miles is reasonably accurate that's 7.255 MPH or 12.07 KPH. People completeing the race in about an hour were averaging 6 mph of course, which is 9.6 kph, which is the number you're approaching. There are some superb atheletes hovering around that one hour mark, people like McRae Wylde (Fiona's dad), who I'd be thrilled to beat, so don't take this as a criticism, it's just a suggestion of where your goal might be.

It looks like you are serious about your trainingso I'd make some suggestions based on my observations. Don't misunderstand, I'm not claiming to be faster than you are now, or a paddle coach, or an expert at training. I'm NONE of these things. But I've hung around a lot of people who are all those things, for a long time, and I pay close attention--I know what they do.

1. The biggest factor is just time spent training for this particular sport. I see Connor doing laps in the harbor early in the morning all the time. I'm going surfing, he's doing mind-numbing laps. And he's not just cruising, he's going as hard as he can while focusing on his technique. Connor's breakout year, when he went from skinny kid that normal humans could keep up with to alien monster was the end result of endless drilling. Dave Kalama said "Connor deserved to beat everyone, he put in the work."

2. Weight. You can't carry extra. If you have the same power to weight ratio as the paddler next to you, and you're on the same board with equivalent technique but you weigh more he's going to beat you. You'd think having more power to go along with that extra weight would make a difference, but you'd be wrong. Power to weight scales linearly (one would hope) while drag from weight scales exponentitally. It's just math. He wins.

3. Technique. Yours will vary over time, but it requires constant focus. Every mistake, every blown change, every half-hearted pull costs you distance. If 90 percent of your strokes are perfect and less-than-perfect costs you a foot each time it happens, in the 5,000 strokes of a race your ten percent of error costs you 500 feet. The difference between first and fifteenth.

4. Focus. You aren't competing against the people in your particular local race, you're competing against the the best paddler that could show up in your age group.

5. Belief. You can paddle that new board at 12 Kph. Rand Carter did it for six miles. He's a regular guy who worked his ass off.

That might be more than you wanted to hear, but you seem serious.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 08:50:30 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Chilly

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 09:42:23 AM »
Good info PonoBill. I think the course was shorter than 6 miles for the PPG distance race, but still impressive speed. What’s your opinion on board weight, is it the same as carrying extra body weight? For example 1 to 1 ratio or 1 to 2 ratio,,,, 5 extra pounds of board weight = 10 extra pounds of body weight?
NSP 2016 12'6 Surf Race Pro

blueplanetsurf

  • Site Sponsor
  • Teahupoo Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 1896
  • Hawaii's SUP HQ
    • View Profile
    • Blue Planet Surf
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 10:29:54 AM »
Your chart is very interesting and having this data provides good insights despite the varying conditions that make individual data points inconclusive.  Clearly you have hit a plateau that is probably close to the hull speed of a 14' board and it will take exponentially more power to go faster.

Bill made some good points.  One thing I would add is that you want to look for any small advantages you can get.  I would say that drafting can save 15-20% effort and is probably the biggest advantage you can find in a flatwater race, so  work on sprints and make it your goal to keep up with and draft that faster guy in your local races right from the start.  If you can make it into his draft in the beginning it will be much easier to keep up with him, once you loose his wash, you will never catch up.  Turns are where you can make up time as well, so my tip would be to practice your turns, a fast start and work on your sprint speed/ intervals.
Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

SlatchJim

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2614
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 10:54:52 AM »
My chart would look similar, albeit much slower.  The one difference is that I'd only have a couple boards and there would be this big spike in speed when promised a cold beer and a hot spa at the end.  :)

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 07:57:36 PM »
Good info PonoBill. I think the course was shorter than 6 miles for the PPG distance race, but still impressive speed. What’s your opinion on board weight, is it the same as carrying extra body weight? For example 1 to 1 ratio or 1 to 2 ratio,,,, 5 extra pounds of board weight = 10 extra pounds of body weight?

As far as skin friction is concerned, a pound is a pound. But SUPs are a lightweight vessel, so there's some added benefit in accelerating this loosely coupled board with hip engagement to made the couple even looser. I've watched Jeremy Riggs kick a board into a swell with just foot movement.

When people get serious about instrumenting SUP boards to try to make them go faster, I expect there will be a cadence for every board/body/speed that has something to do with that kick and a lot to do with limiting blade slip and getting the most energy into forward motion. Blade slip is wasted energy, and generally paddling faster than the board is going guarantees excessive slip. It's a factor other paddlesports watch closely and SUP racers don't watch at all, but there's a strong likelihood that SUP racers will go faster when they paddle slower.

Slatch--the way I do long distances is by having lunch at the turnaround point. A nice riverside restaurant makes 20 miles no big deal. Once you're there, you have to get back,
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

mr_proper

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2016, 11:26:04 PM »
The winner of the PPG open class distance race 40-59 was Rand Carter with 49:36.3. Assuming that 6 miles is reasonably accurate that's 7.255 MPH or 12.07 KPH.

Average of 12 seems very fast.
At the lost mills race the fastest paddler (Michael Booth) had an average speed of around 10.3 kph (ok, was 19 km)
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

yugi

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2016, 12:03:44 AM »
^ that's insane, and insaner

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2016, 01:55:50 AM »
How on earth do you manage to average 6.4mph over nearly 12 miles? I am suddenly struck by a sense of the total futility of bothering to go out later for a paddle and trying to beat my PB. It is like a child trying to out-sprint Husain Bolt. Only in my case I'm only going to get slower, whereas the kid would be able to fool himself he'll be faster when he grows up.

I guess that whether you find the speeds of the elite racers either inspiring or disheartening similarly depends on your hope of ever achieving anything similar. But it is amazing that the human body is capable of that. I wonder how many calories that effort would burn...

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Getting pretty good at racing in about a year - Story, lessons
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2016, 09:33:38 AM »
Yeah, the numbers look a bit wanky, Connor did the "6 Mile" course in 44 minutes, which by my calculations (always suspect) is 8.182 MPH (13.1 KPH). If they were off by twenty percent  and the course was 4.8 miles, Connors time is  6.54 MPH or 10.4 KPH which might be more in line with reality, or at least the Lost Mills numbers. Shorter distance than Lost Mills so the distance was probably not off by 20 percent, but somewhere in between. So multiply the numbers above by .9 if you like.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal