Author Topic: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers  (Read 24239 times)

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 01:08:43 PM »
Slightly confused over the standing further back.....am I right in saying stand a little forward to catch ( smaller bumps) but then back off further on the board? Not stand slightly further back from the handle all the time?

clay

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
    • www.clayisland.com
    • Email
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 01:42:14 PM »
Great video Robert!  Thanks for sharing.  The other videos you made a while back I found very helpful also, especially when trying to understand when to paddle.  Love to see more videos with advanced moves.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

clay

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
    • www.clayisland.com
    • Email
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2015, 01:58:28 PM »
Slightly confused over the standing further back.....am I right in saying stand a little forward to catch ( smaller bumps) but then back off further on the board? Not stand slightly further back from the handle all the time?
I have found that standing more forward in smaller bumps helps me catch the little ones, and then moving back a little once I have caught it keeps me in the sweet spot of the bump and maintain momentum.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2015, 02:08:41 PM »
Slightly confused over the standing further back.....am I right in saying stand a little forward to catch ( smaller bumps) but then back off further on the board? Not stand slightly further back from the handle all the time?
I have found that standing more forward in smaller bumps helps me catch the little ones, and then moving back a little once I have caught it keeps me in the sweet spot of the bump and maintain momentum.

Thanks...that is what I thought is the best.

Badger

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2662
  • Seacoast NH
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2015, 02:22:06 PM »
Slightly confused over the standing further back.....am I right in saying stand a little forward to catch ( smaller bumps) but then back off further on the board? Not stand slightly further back from the handle all the time?

I'm no expert but I think one of the reasons you stand further back is just to keep the nose from pearling into the wave ahead.  That's why footwork is so important because you need to be constantly trimming the board.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:24:14 PM by Badger »
Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2015, 02:26:14 PM »
Great vids Robert....really useful

covesurfer

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1936
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2015, 02:29:43 PM »
I agree that starting forward and moving back as the wave behind you picks of the tail and begins accelerating you is true most of the time. Where you stand on different boards is dependent on the board and your weight and balance. For example, if I was paddling a raceboard on a downwinder, I'd stand behind the handle most of the time, even though on flat water, it might be more efficient to be further forward.

My .02 cents is that it is almost always better and faster to angle to the right or left across the face of the waves you catch. This will lead you from the peak of one wave to the shoulder of the next wave and a few paddle stroke take you to the peak of that wave. You do not have to get as sideways as you would surfing, but even a slight right or left across the face and down at the same time allows you to stay with the wave train and link your glides.

I've given away too much already. Forget all of it.

Eagle

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2426
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2015, 03:01:01 PM »
Down and straight works to build enough speed -> then switch to down and across for the swell ahead.  Repeat down and across and link as many as possible -> keep eyes focused ahead to stay in the power groove when the next wave builds left or right. 

Do not fight the swell - and go left or right following the power.  Glance at the tip to help gauge a fast trim for each wave - and adjust forward or back.  Shift a bit left or right to stay right in the sweet spot power band.  A zig-zag line down a run is often faster than trying to go straight.

Here is an additional video from JR to help beginners visualize what to do on a DW run to avoid mistakes.   ;)

http://youtu.be/7vFKZKqOm58
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

peterwSUPr

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2015, 05:05:33 PM »
For those in small waves where you are trying to not plant the nose into the wave ahead, you might find angling the board is a little tricky because if or when the nose does catch it is more likely to throw you off to the side a bit.  But sometime on those I have to move a long way back on the board of they're steep and close together but still fairly small.  I'm not talking about most Gorge or Maui conditions, but smaller conditions that many of us get at home.

Some may know this, but here's a little background on wind waves from someone who's taken a Masters level oceanography course called "Water Waves".  Small wind generated waves in deep water are different than bigger waves breaking in shallow water.  For deep water waves where they are not "feeling bottom", the wave energy moves at half the speed of the individual waves.  For this reason the waves at the front of a set will fade out, and the wave following the set which was quite small will become a big wave.  This is why when you are paddling you spot waves that are ahead of you, and catch them up from behind.  A wave that is small and smooth behind a bigger set will get that slower moving wave energy and become a bigger wave.  You'll catch the last wave in the set and end up eventually at the front of a multi-wave set.  With luck you carry off it with some speed and line up onto the back of another set.  This is why looking behind you for waves is useless unless you then stop and allow it to pass you by.  This also works with boat wakes for those in flat areas.  Catch the boat wake from behind or let it pass you by before you catch it.

For those of us coming from windsurfing and kiting background, this also explains why in these wind waves (not surf) the nice steep ramp is the next wave back behind the whitecap that just broke.

I've never been in big ocean waves on a SUP (other than near shore in surf).  It's possible that the long period swells on the outside in deeper water are feeling bottom in deep water, so they may not behave the same way as the smaller wind waves in deep water.

Peter

DavidJohn

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 6675
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2015, 05:41:40 PM »
For those in small waves where you are trying to not plant the nose into the wave ahead, you might find angling the board is a little tricky because if or when the nose does catch it is more likely to throw you off to the side a bit.  But sometime on those I have to move a long way back on the board of they're steep and close together but still fairly small.  I'm not talking about most Gorge or Maui conditions, but smaller conditions that many of us get at home.

Some may know this, but here's a little background on wind waves from someone who's taken a Masters level oceanography course called "Water Waves".  Small wind generated waves in deep water are different than bigger waves breaking in shallow water.  For deep water waves where they are not "feeling bottom", the wave energy moves at half the speed of the individual waves.  For this reason the waves at the front of a set will fade out, and the wave following the set which was quite small will become a big wave.  This is why when you are paddling you spot waves that are ahead of you, and catch them up from behind.  A wave that is small and smooth behind a bigger set will get that slower moving wave energy and become a bigger wave.  You'll catch the last wave in the set and end up eventually at the front of a multi-wave set.  With luck you carry off it with some speed and line up onto the back of another set.  This is why looking behind you for waves is useless unless you then stop and allow it to pass you by.  This also works with boat wakes for those in flat areas.  Catch the boat wake from behind or let it pass you by before you catch it.

For those of us coming from windsurfing and kiting background, this also explains why in these wind waves (not surf) the nice steep ramp is the next wave back behind the whitecap that just broke.

I've never been in big ocean waves on a SUP (other than near shore in surf).  It's possible that the long period swells on the outside in deeper water are feeling bottom in deep water, so they may not behave the same way as the smaller wind waves in deep water.

Peter

Well said.. I've always found this hard to explain.

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2015, 08:58:36 PM »
For those in small waves where you are trying to not plant the nose into the wave ahead, you might find angling the board is a little tricky because if or when the nose does catch it is more likely to throw you off to the side a bit.  But sometime on those I have to move a long way back on the board of they're steep and close together but still fairly small.  I'm not talking about most Gorge or Maui conditions, but smaller conditions that many of us get at home.

Some may know this, but here's a little background on wind waves from someone who's taken a Masters level oceanography course called "Water Waves".  Small wind generated waves in deep water are different than bigger waves breaking in shallow water.  For deep water waves where they are not "feeling bottom", the wave energy moves at half the speed of the individual waves.  For this reason the waves at the front of a set will fade out, and the wave following the set which was quite small will become a big wave.  This is why when you are paddling you spot waves that are ahead of you, and catch them up from behind.  A wave that is small and smooth behind a bigger set will get that slower moving wave energy and become a bigger wave.  You'll catch the last wave in the set and end up eventually at the front of a multi-wave set.  With luck you carry off it with some speed and line up onto the back of another set.  This is why looking behind you for waves is useless unless you then stop and allow it to pass you by.  This also works with boat wakes for those in flat areas.  Catch the boat wake from behind or let it pass you by before you catch it.

For those of us coming from windsurfing and kiting background, this also explains why in these wind waves (not surf) the nice steep ramp is the next wave back behind the whitecap that just broke.

I've never been in big ocean waves on a SUP (other than near shore in surf).  It's possible that the long period swells on the outside in deeper water are feeling bottom in deep water, so they may not behave the same way as the smaller wind waves in deep water.

Peter

V interesting...thanks for explaining.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2015, 09:25:17 PM »
Sounds like you are talking about wave trains.  The energy-conserving way that longer period wave trains travel long distances in deep water is somewhat as you describe, but I don't know what the rest of your notion is about. Doesn't matter too much since the wind waves we are generally riding are short periods waves in intermediate or shallow water. The wavelengths, and therefore the speed of the waves, is varied and wave trains and sets don't form.

You don't get those kind of ordered formations until a considerable distance is traveled from the wave source and the chaotic mixed wavelength waves separate because longer wavelength swells travel faster. The swells form up into trains reinforcing each other harmonically. But that doesn't have anything to do with the kind of swells we're interested in.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Blue crab

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2015, 10:15:17 PM »
Pretty awesome (and not at all unexpected on this forum) that a superb primer on skills for beginners would rapidly evolve into a discussion about relatively advanced skills and open ocean wave physics.  I have taken some extremely athletic people out for their first downwinders. All returned to shore safely.  Most managed to get a few decent glides (by accident) and become addicted to the sport. None had the foggiest notion about carving and angling right and left, or good timing. These skills come much later even for natural athletes.

My 2 cents on the perfect ingredients for a first time run: short course (<3 miles), real wind (>20 mph: down breezing is not addictive and does not sell the sport), very stable DW board (29" Glide, F14 or the like), huge emphasis on safety, and beer at the end.

peterp

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
    • View Profile
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2015, 10:21:11 PM »
One tip I give students when explaining how to time your paddlestroke, is to never paddle uphill - try and get a feel for the tail of the board getting lifted up and use that as a cue to put power in the paddlestroke. If the paddlestroke feels heavy, you are paddling uphill - if the paddlestroke feels light you are paddling downhill and not wasting energy. You will never catch a bump while board is sliding down the back of the wave in front (with nose up) so waiting for the lift to put the hammer down also teaches you to find the rhythm of when to paddle.

I also experience a lot of pretty decent wave-sup paddlers taking up downwinding have terrible paddling technique and I always find a flatwater paddlestroke technique lesson will improve the ability to catch bumps dramatically.

On the boards we use (Naish Glides/Javs) I always tell my students that they must be as far forward as they can without the nose ever digging in - water must always pass under the nose - not over it. This means only stepping back when nose starts pearling (or learning to anticipate this) and stepping back a split second before it does.

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: Downwinders: the most common mistakes made by first timers
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2015, 10:23:27 PM »
Great videos !

Couple of things that I would like to add to common mistakes.
Hopefully, this will get beginners to catch more bumps, and to last a lot longer on the water.

Sprinting to catch bumps
People need to work on their sprints. They should be short and powerful. A common mistake is perhaps sprinting, and then sprinting some more - before over exhausting yourself. I recommend practicing powerful sprints (3 to 7 strokes) and then getting into a smooth rhythm again… repeat every 20 seconds.

Breathing between sets
Everyone needs to catch their breath. Learning to relax and resting between sprints is something everyone can learn.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal