Author Topic: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding  (Read 8523 times)

dingfix

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14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« on: August 09, 2015, 01:59:36 PM »
Hi, looking to pickup a used 14 for flatwater lake paddling (no racing) and maybe a bit of downwinding.

Thinking around 28 or 29 wide, for decent stability.   I'm in the UK, so has to be one of the brands available here, eg Starboard, Fanatic, JL if I'm lucky.   I'm 200lbs, what board would you guys recommend.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 02:11:22 PM by dingfix »

Area 10

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2015, 01:10:33 PM »
I doubt if you'll get many replies posting to a US-based forum asking about used board options in the UK. You might have more luck posting on the various used SUP boards for sale Facebook sites based in the UK and Ireland.

But basically you are unlikely to have too much of a choice. Most of the options will be serious racers selling on last year's equipment - and then the people who bought those boards selling them on again because they are too tippy :)

If you could find an old Bark Dominator or a JM 14fter that might work well. Or there's a 2015 Fanatic 14x30 HRS going for a great price right now on eBay and the forums. That is a great all-round board and very stable. It's not a racer but it is much more adaptable than an out-and-out racer will be. At your weight and for the recreational use that your describe, I'd have thought it would be a good buy: if you later want to sell it on, you'd be able to sell it for next to no loss.

dingfix

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2015, 01:47:35 PM »
Thanks for the input, will take a look.  SUP is bigger in the US so my plan was to get opinions from a broader base first.  I'll check out the Fanatic though.

photofr

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2015, 09:37:25 PM »
Hate to say it, but if possible:
Go for a 17'4 x 27" - Ace GT from Starboard.
With your weight, you will be faster on the flats than pretty much any other 14'… and downwind will be far more pleasant and way faster.
In our tests, the bigger guys were all much faster on dead-flat water with the GT than the "best" flat water board.

Food for thoughts… right ?
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2015, 11:38:45 PM »
Hate to say it, but if possible:
Go for a 17'4 x 27" - Ace GT from Starboard.
With your weight, you will be faster on the flats than pretty much any other 14'… and downwind will be far more pleasant and way faster.
In our tests, the bigger guys were all much faster on dead-flat water with the GT than the "best" flat water board.

Food for thoughts… right ?
Pretty much no chance of finding a used one of those in the UK. I'm not even sure you could get a new one.

The options are pretty limited in the UK. I have bought from overseas as many times as from home. Many of the well-known brands like SIC don't even have distributors/retailers in the UK.

Boards are a ridiculously expensive proposition in the UK for most people. They are approximately twice the price that they are in the US. I recently bought a used 14ft race board and calculated that the depreciation from new will have cost the two previous owners something like 180 dollars US a month. Certainly, this is an extreme case (it was a carbon construction board that had not been well-treated), but part of the problem is that used board values are so low. There are not enough people coming into the sport who want hard boards. Newbies buy inflatables 10-1 mostly because they are urban dwellers and so have space issues. Then there is the rapid obsolescence of the designs: within a year or two the board that was considered cutting-edge looks dated because of the dual factors of brands radically altering their ranges every year, and the development and increasing specialisation of the sport.

It is very hard to make money out if SUP if you as a retailer in the UK. Most are doing it as just one part of a more diversified business, or are just doing it principally for the love of the sport. So retailers tend not to hold much stock and distributors will be very cautious about bringing in esoteric boards. The Ace GT is certainly esoteric because it is a UL board without a rudder and is not even marketed as a race board. There is no UL race class in the UK. I'd buy one, but I'm about the only person I know who would. The market for very expensive, hard to store, hard to transport, unraceable, hard to source boards that would be very tricky in typical UK cross-wind conditions is going to be very small. And consequently the depreciation would be dramatic. It's a shame because you are right that for many people, unlimited is the way to go, if paddling pleasure is your goal. But instead for most people their goal is either to do well in races, or to have a cheap, convenient board that is no hassle and where ease of ownership and use are the main criteria.

yugi

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 01:42:03 AM »
Check www.standup-guide.fr for second hands. Ship by transporter to a town of your choice and go pick up - dirt cheap. That’s what we do from Switzerland. Can’t be that hard if you are anywhere in southern UK to zip over pick it up. France was very pro 12’6 till this year but now 14’ is all the rage - so this fall more 14’ deals will show up.

Friend in Switzerland is selling a SIC 14’ Bullet for GBP1100. I could imagine it being shipped within france. PM me if you want his number.
http://www.anibis.ch/AdvertDetail.aspx?wl=1&lng=fr&cid=2713&aid=11682167

We are flatwater paddling and are all on DW boards, mostly Bullets. I know Area10 is horrified by DW boards pushing water on flats but we’d rather have boards we can DW on and handle chop gracefully. Two GPS-heads (both near your weight) who switched to SIC 14’ Bullets have interesting flatwater data BTW. One switching from a 12’6 x26.5 Fanatic race is faster, the other coming from A 14’ Nidecker race, a lightening fast flatwater board, is 1% slower. We got guys your weight on Bullets no issue.

In fact the second you say “and do occasion DW” we believe you’re better off on a DW board. As much as we live for festive DW conditions they are but occasional here anyway , especially in summer. We even go do local races on our DW boards and do fine against race boards. Probably coz we are out paddling in all conditions.

Trust me, we know flatwater. That's all we got. Talk to the guy who switched from Nidecker race to SIC Bullet if you want both sides of a story. I'll give you his number. I'll give you the summary: much happier in chop, just has happy on glass, happy to begin DWing.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 01:54:13 AM by yugi »

yugi

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 02:02:36 AM »
And now your head must really be spinning, Ding.

The guy who lives in one of the renowned windy and stormy places of France suggest you a board from the tippy bring of the sport. The guy who has the most DW boards, probably worldwide, would put you on a displacement board. And the guy who has nothing but flatwater in his whole country is saying get a DW board.

Welcome to your typical internet forum.

mr_proper

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 02:54:53 AM »
Two GPS-heads (both near your weight) who switched to SIC 14’ Bullets have interesting flatwater data BTW.

I also own a Bullet since some weeks and I would be interested in the speed values in flat water. It seems to me, the flatter the slower. Could it be?
It would be nice to know what speed is possible.
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

yugi

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 04:35:19 AM »
Well, Clean, that speed would depend on the paddler. Wouldn’t it?

Either take a look at race boards if you’re interested in the results of data and solid testing. Or get a GPS and do some analytics purely based on your own paddling. I think the teams are collecting data, comparing and definitely doing real world testing far better than the odd individual. As you know from stats: the more the better.

Then again even within teams there will be different strokes for different folks. I was talking to a Starboard team rider questioning some of their race board shapes I couldn’t get my head around. His answer was simple: he couldn’t either. He has his preferred board and other riders have their quirky preferences that don’t jive at all with his priorities, even if he can make them work. Starboard listens and builds for the different rider tastes. Hence their varied offering. Naish does the opposite and comes out with but one (now maybe 2) race board shapes that riders will use for all races, all conditions, and will suit the advanced paddler in all conditions too. I’m a fan of that “enduro” style.

On the whole, in race boards, I’m noticing a definite disappearance of the pure flatwater displacement bow and an upsurge in flat bottomed boards. I love it. Far superior for all-water conditions and the downwind sections.



« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 04:37:01 AM by yugi »

Eagle

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 01:49:45 PM »
No Bullet to compare - but this gives some perspective of many different designs.

Even though this test was done a few years ago - some of the boards are still available today.  The results show a fairly wide range of paddler weights and the times they generate.  Every board and paddler combo seems to go faster or slower on a particular board -> and it matters if that board was paddled first or last.  So the results are good - but need to be analyzed a bit to see more representative cleaner results.

Some boards you thought to be really slow wide touring boards were surprisingly fast -> and those supposedly super fast narrow race boards - only a bit faster.  Add big slop and reflected chop and rough conditions -> and the results would likely change and maybe even reverse depending on the rider and skill level.

Sponsored riders here in Deep Cove will use 23" wide as conditions are fairly calm -> but up in Squamish will use 25" race boards when they DW.  They have good balance and high skill level compared to the average Joe and paddle long distances with relative ease.  They recommend always a wider board vs narrower unless you have the ability to put down full power for the conditions.

Demo is by far the very best way to find a well suited board - but know many do not have this luxury.  For virtually all of our gear - boards paddles fins - we were lucky enough to have tested it beforehand so knew exactly what to expect.  For others less fortunate they shortly sell their tippy boards because it is too hard for them to balance on for their ability.  So your idea of 28" or 29" is probably spot on at this point.   ;)

http://www.supvic.com/the-rps-supvic-ultimate-14-board-test/
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 02:17:37 PM by Eagle »
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

coldsup

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 08:54:46 PM »
There are a few second hand boards of the sort you are after that come up on the second hand UK a SUP sales Facebook page.

robon

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 09:18:35 PM »
Good topic and one that I can relate to.

I'm a few pounds or 5 over 200 and was also looking for a board design that would do well for distance touring and some downwinders. I end up in some really crappy conditions at times, so my overriding concern was a board that could do well in rough, confused water, but also decent flat water performance. I was all about displacement shapes before, but I see the value in the latest generation of DW boards with lower rocker lines being used for an all around board for paddlers who don't race or just dabble in racing here and there. With that said, the hybrid style boards like the 14 X 28 All-Star, and Naish Glide 14 X 29.25 are well worth looking into.

Availability for 14 footers in my area is very limited, and it was very hard to source two of the models I was most interested in, but I ended up with a 14 X 29 Glide out of the States. I believe Naish is also available in the UK. I'm not really into peddling brands, and I think I would have been happy with a few different boards from various outfits, but the Glide is working well for me so far. I have had it out every day in conditions ranging from glass to five foot swell since I picked it up last Friday in Idaho, and it is a good all-arounder for sure. Not overly fast on the flats, but not horrible either, and it is excellent in rough water and downwind conditions. Eagle mentioned that many don't have the luxury of demoing boards, and I rarely get to test boards and went by reviews and board dimensions. It also helped that many people around our weight have put up reviews for boards like the Glide and All-star, so you don't have to go in totally blind with a purchase. I honed in on a all conditions 28-29" board, and the Glide ticks the boxes for what I needed. Good luck in finding a board.

mr_proper

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 12:30:22 AM »
Well, Clean, that speed would depend on the paddler. Wouldn’t it?

Yes, that's right. But I think that each board/shape has its construction conditional limit. And I would be interested just what is possible.
I thought you have the GPS data like maximum speed, ... and that is why I had asked.
No problem if not.

I measured my own paddling with GPS and it is quite slow. Since I have no comparatives for my board, I can't be classified, if I'm just a bad paddler or the board is near the limit.

But next weekend I hope to test different SIC boards on flat water and maybe it gives me new insights.
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

mr_proper

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 12:42:35 AM »
No Bullet to compare - but this gives some perspective of many different designs.

http://www.supvic.com/the-rps-supvic-ultimate-14-board-test/

thanks a lot, very interesting
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

raf

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Re: 14 footer for flatwater and occasional downwinding
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2015, 05:09:33 AM »
The guy just wants a basic 14'er for "no racing".  Almost anything will work.  Something about 28-30" is going to be more comfortable.  Any board can downwind in light stuff, say 15-20mph.  It sounds like the options are very limited in UK, so don't sweat getting the "perfect" board (it doesn't exist anyways). 

 


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