Author Topic: SUP accident  (Read 8565 times)

yugi

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SUP accident
« on: June 05, 2015, 04:15:05 AM »

We had our first SUP death here this week.
   http://mobile2.lematin.ch/articles/556ff14187da8b4d55000001
(google can translate for you)

Probably hydrocution most people think (Vagal Inhibition due to Submersion - Immersion Syndrome). If so it’s only going to happen when overheated and just futzing along - not likely when making  an effort apparently.

It’s the first accident I’ve heard of this type so I’m guessing it’s pretty rare. Is it more common than I thought?

A lifejacket, especially of the huge collar type, would definitely have helped. Damn! The lake police will be all over us again, they were getting pretty lenient recently. I’m guessing a leash could help. Hard to tell.

Always wear a leash anyway.



SeaMe

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 06:54:57 AM »
Probably hydrocution most people think (Vagal Inhibition due to Submersion - Immersion Syndrome). If so it’s only going to happen when overheated and just futzing along - not likely when making  an effort apparently.

If it's a case of "cold shock" (which I believe it the North American equivalent to "hydrocution") it doesn't have any relation to effort, and more to do with physical condition and luck. The cold water causes the blood vessels to narrow, and if someone has an underlying cardiac condition—voilà—near instant heart attack or cardiac arrest. Or, for the unlucky physically fit specimen, the cold water causes hyperventilation while their face is submerged in the water—voilà—drowning.

It’s the first accident I’ve heard of this type so I’m guessing it’s pretty rare. Is it more common than I thought?

Not sure if it's rare or not, but someone posted this link a few years ago and I found it very informative:
http://www.coldwaterbootcamp.com/


A lifejacket, especially of the huge collar type, would definitely have helped. Damn! The lake police will be all over us again, they were getting pretty lenient recently. I’m guessing a leash could help. Hard to tell.

Always wear a leash anyway.

I agree that pfds and leashes should be worn, but if the cause of death was heart attach/cardiac arrest the jacket would not have saved him; if the cause of death was hyperventilation while submerged the leash would not have helped. However both or either would have made it easier for emergency responders to reach him.
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surfercook

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 08:11:20 AM »
Weird, can't imagine dying from a harmless fall. Unless it is a heart attack from cold water thing.I had to translate the web page you linked and then did a quick search and found a relating article.
http://www.thelocal.ch/20150604/standup-paddle-boarder-drowns-in-lake-geneva

Scary though considering I just tackled my first river wave. I was def NOT going in w/out a leash. Also suited up although the water was way warmer than I thought it would be. Booties too helped alot since the river bed and banks are all rock.   

Shots from my river session on the Delaware River here in New jersey, USA. Guessing there are no rideable standing waves on Lake Geneva.
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PonoBill

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 09:54:44 AM »
There are a few more possibilities for cold water induced death. I researched this a few years ago after a person I pulled out of the water in Manzanita (nearly a monthly occasion when I was actively using my beach house there) hyperventilated and fainted once we were safely on the sand. One of the EMTs that responded told me the had a few people having fatal heart attacks post-rescue, which seemed nonsensical to me.

The mechanism are: Vasoconstriction--which can cause heart attacks or fainting. People diving off a boat through the warm water layer hit the thermocline and faint sometimes. Then they drown.

Gasp reflex -- you take in a big breath of water, partially fill your lungs, and then become incapacitate from choking.

Hyperventilation -- generally occurs on the surface, and then you faint and drown.

Post rescue -- people sometimes have heart attacks just before rescue or right afterwards. The stress hormones that were keeping them going shut down and the combination of vasoconstriction and elevated heart rate triggers heart attacks--generally fibrillation theough MI's are also common.

Incapacitation -- not hypothermia, this is can happen earlier than a loss of temperature regulation. Muscles and nerves get cold enough to lose function (I've been there) and drowning occurs.

Bsaically cold water is dangerous. It's good to know what you response to immersion is, though if it's heart attacks then you might prefer not to know. Sometimes the Orca layer is a good thing.

.
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robon

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 10:31:27 AM »
I'm an EMT by trade, and while I'm not trained in water rescue specifically, it comes down to the last sentence in PB's response. Cold water is dangerous. It's easy to go into semantics on physiology and what may have happened, but cold water is extremely dangerous if you are not prepared for the plunge. There was a tragedy involving 4 youth dying when their canoe capsized on a  lake close to where I live last year, and it was entirely preventable. Besides the canoe being overloaded, with no bailing buckets, etc, they weren't wearing life jackets and it would have bought them much more time. This happened mid May, and the water was too cold for proper muscular function lasting more than a  minute or so.  This incident occurred less than 500 feet from shore.

Besides no life jacket, there was no mention of a leash in this story. The initial shock of a cold water plunge is bad enough but if you can't get back on your board right away, then precious time is being lost, and time dissipates quickly in cold water scenarios. It's unclear what really happened, but run off from the mountains is peaking at this time of year, and water is still freezing in most mountain lakes. It was 30 degrees C here for several days in May, but the water was still too cold to swim in for more than a minute anywhere but protected, shallow bays where the water can heat up. . I imagine it to be similar to Geneva. You are taking your life into your hands if you don't have a PFD and leash paddling in the mountains in spring/early summer during runoff. It's always wise to use the right gear, but it's another ballgame paddling in cold water.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 11:09:47 AM by robon »

stoneaxe

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 10:40:19 AM »
Geez....I've always enjoyed icy plunges. Didn't realize there was danger of heart attack.
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coldsup

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 10:47:22 AM »
The water temp was around 16 to 20 degrees which is pretty mild....air temp much higher. He was close to people I understand...fell off, inhaled water straight off and went down....all very quick. Very tragic. No leash or PFD....he had borrowed a board from an individual.

pdxmike

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 11:29:39 AM »
Some things I think of when I see these stories:
--I think there's a safety benefit to standup (didn't work out in this case) over other vessels due to the assumption you'll be falling in, so you are (or should be) used to falling in, dressed for it, and not surprised.  Standup is not like boating in that regard, it's more like half boating/half swimming.
--part of the benefit of a leash or pfd is if you do die, people can find your body, which may not matter to you since you're dead, but is a big deal to survivors and rescuers.  If you fall in due to a heart attack, a leash or pfd won't save you, but they do have that other benefit


robon

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 11:55:20 AM »
The water temp was around 16 to 20 degrees which is pretty mild....air temp much higher. He was close to people I understand...fell off, inhaled water straight off and went down....all very quick. Very tragic. No leash or PFD....he had borrowed a board from an individual.

I didn't realize Lake Geneva was that mild. I was reading into it and apparently the temperature is taken in the first 3 feet of water, and one half of the lake is a fair bit colder than the other. From what you describe though, it happened right away, and taking in water immediately can definitely lead to going under. It is very tragic.

Eagle

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 01:38:28 PM »
Warm temps and warm wind up a glacier fed inlet can lead to dangerous conditions.  You can certainly get away with not wearing neoprene and a PFD if you stay relatively dry.  However if you have any type of problem and cannot hop back on your board easy - you will get chilled very fast.

After a short out and back DW last summer - one that was paddling with us had to jump in the water to cool off.  She was very surprised at how cold the water actually was when fully submerged and hopped right back on her board after staying in only a few seconds.

Just 30 miles away back where we normally paddle - on the same body of water - the water temp is perfectly fine.

Indeed quite tragic.  Most current PDFs keep your head propped way up to prevent drowning.  Problem with this becomes getting back on the board.  Not as easy as one might think with a flipped board in breeze and cold water.  Just rotating onto your stomach can be problematic - here a full PFD can become a liability.  Always a good idea to test your gear so you do not get surprised when it counts.

There are some people that fall in cold water and do freeze up - once they inhale water and start panicking is becomes a big problem.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 01:42:08 PM by Eagle »
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SeaMe

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 03:36:47 PM »
Geez....I've always enjoyed icy plunges. Didn't realize there was danger of heart attack.

Part of it is acclimation. He was from Brazil, was he not? I doubt they have much of a polar bear club there.

I didn't realize Lake Geneva was that mild. I was reading into it and apparently the temperature is taken in the first 3 feet of water, and one half of the lake is a fair bit colder than the other.

This is one of the reasons I take local water temperature readings with a grain of salt. In my experience, as little as 18" can make a discernible temperature difference.

Most current PDFs keep your head propped way up to prevent drowning.

True of type II and type V, but the near universally used style is type III. We have two traditional type IIIs and IIRC both warn in the fine print that they will not keep the wearer's face out of the water.

Problem with this becomes getting back on the board.  Not as easy as one might think with a flipped board in breeze and cold water.  Just rotating onto your stomach can be problematic - here a full PFD can become a liability.  Always a good idea to test your gear so you do not get surprised when it counts.

+1
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yugi

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 03:45:26 PM »
and another person standup paddling died this evening. Just other side of same lake. How improbable is that?
   http://m.lemessager.fr/a-la-une-le-messager/thonon-les-bains-un-homme-se-noie-lors-d-une-sortie-en-ia914b0n142713

Water is pretty mild, around 20 deg C.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 03:54:17 PM by yugi »

SUPcheat

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 04:44:46 PM »
Acclimation may have something to do with it, too.  Last year, I wore my shorty almost all the time and got used to the first cold plunge.  I was also less sensitive to cold in general.

This year, full wet suit, and I am keeping it longer than I thought because I am used to more warmth and the suit is easy to put on and take off, relatively speaking.

Of course, vasoconstriction is much more dangerous to older dudes in general, especially in arteries that may already have some asymptomatic plaque blockage.

There is also quite a bit of variation in cold tolerance in individuals in general, genetic, I suppose.  There was some documentary I saw about a guy in Europe who loves cold, jogs naked in the snow, takes plunges that would kill just about anybody.  His body can dial up the heat production to handle it.
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hbsteve

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 04:49:25 PM »
In Missoula Montana one of the school crossing guards guys wore shorts all year except on the coldest days.  Otherwise he was too hot.

PonoBill

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Re: SUP accident
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 08:55:43 PM »
I generally have steam coming off my rash guard in winter weather. Same as Stoneaxe. It's a family thing. Doesn't mean my nuts aren't up around my diaphragm after the first fall, but other than that Im good. Every serious wetsuit I've ever had gathers dust while I surf in boardies and tights with a 1mil shirt at most. Even spring suits seem like too much mid-winter in Oregon--until I get out of the water. Then I shake so hard I get a headache.

The number one requirement for cold water paddling (other than not dying) is a steam shower. Our house in hood river has one, and when I get off the river on a cold, overcast, blustery day after falling in 55 degree water a few times I call Diane and ask her to turn it on. I should install a smartphone controller---hmmm-- anyway, steam showers are heavenly.

But it's important to understand what your genetic makeup and your conditioning permits. For some people it's no big deal, for some it's a one and done thing. Good to know. Manliness has nothing to do with it. It's purely autonomic reflexes and adaption.
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