Whats so bad about PFDs?

[bef]

kids have to have a pdf on when boating.  Simple, law.  When we are boating, I have two of the self inflating vest that the Mrs and I that we wear, always as an example.  You forget you have them on and they are automatic ones.  Important when you think about a collision possibility.  They are not approved for children though.  This is on our Formula also. 

SUP in calm inland water.  Have a vest with you, wear a leash so the board and vest stay with you.  Even without a vest on, if I tread water, that board is coming back to me with it attached to my ankle.  Makes sense to have a good leash.  If windy, make sure the flotation will stay with you always.

If in moving water or rough water, i like to have some type of flotation on me.  Could be a vest, an inflatable belt pack or a ski belt type float.  Even if I fall off, it makes swimming that much easier and relaxing.  I am a good swimmer and float easily, but when on a board just want something there, just in case.  Even an un-inflated belt pack will provide a little bit of flotation.  If it is windy, wear a leash.  Makes sense from just the aspect of keeping control of your board. 

Being out in open water, windy or wavy conditions with out flotation attached to you somehow seems like a bad idea.  Be nice for laws to reflect that.  But the fact that any sane adult believes that politicians (D or R) will do things that make sense and truly helps us makes me chuckle.  Don't expect them to keep it simple and make sense.

Surfing, no idea, never did it.

[zachhandler]

Has an inflatable waist belt PFD ever saved anyone? I own one, and I use it when I am legally required to have a PFD but don't feel I actually need one. calm warm water, etc. If I am in a situation where I actually need a PFT then I wear a kayak type.  I just don't believe an inflatable around the waist adds much safety.

To me it seems the main reason a paddler needs a PFD is to get them through cold shock if the fall in cold water, or to keep them afloat if they are knocked unconscious or significantly injured. the inflatables dont help in that case. I suppose if you are far from shore and came and need to bob in the waves for hours waiting for a boat to appear, there is time to deploy the wait belt device. but using a leg leash makes that scenario much much less likely.

[TN_SUP]

What about paddle leashes? I think that is taking it to the extreme, but sometimes you have to drop it and swim and hope the wind or waves bring it back to you. Considering a paddle leash for the surfski because re-entering can be difficult while holding the paddle.

[covesurfer]

On downwinders in open ocean, we're in open water and a long, difficult or impossible swim could be necessary if you lose your board. The nightmare scenario is getting hit by an outside wave (not uncommon) and the leash breaking. You cannot catch the board, unless you're extremely fortunate. If no one is close by (usually the case) you are on your own in those circumstances.

If you have a belt PFD, you can inflate it by blowing into it if you don't have a co2 cartridge. Another good thing about the PFD's is that they are bright colors so you can be spotted more easily. You can, alternatively, inflate your water pack bladder and at least have something that floats to help you stay up.

Unless the water is really warm, you will eventually start to get cold - your body temp is 98.6 and you're in 75 degree water, you are still going to get chilled but it takes longer. Obviously, really cold water, less than about 72 degrees, you start getting into hypothermia risks sooner and that will seriously affect your ability to self-rescue, assuming you can pull off a self rescue. In any case where you're out in the water for a while, having something that floats is something you'll be thankful for.

As far as I'm concerned, a good leash that gets replaced at regular intervals is the best insurance along with trying to avoid situations where your board is going to fly when you crash. But, stuff happens. Part of why we like doing this. If you can stand to wear a belt or any other PFD, it's additional insurance but it isn't foolproof or real protection, just another fighting chance kind of thing IMO

[pdxmike]

Has an inflatable waist belt PFD ever saved anyone? I own one, and I use it when I am legally required to have a PFD but don't feel I actually need one. calm warm water, etc. If I am in a situation where I actually need a PFT then I wear a kayak type.  I just don't believe an inflatable around the waist adds much safety.

To me it seems the main reason a paddler needs a PFD is to get them through cold shock if the fall in cold water, or to keep them afloat if they are knocked unconscious or significantly injured. the inflatables dont help in that case. I suppose if you are far from shore and came and need to bob in the waves for hours waiting for a boat to appear, there is time to deploy the wait belt device. but using a leg leash makes that scenario much much less likely.

It wouldn't surprise me if they've hardly ever saved anyone.  Like covesurfer said, it's additional insurance, and if you have a leash that hasn't broken, you'll never need the pfd. 

Most people I know wear the inflatables to avoid tickets, and after that for the protection.  I think almost all of them also wear leashes. 

And if you can't swim well, if you insist on going in the water, you should have a regular pfd, and many of those people will anyway, since an inflatable is much more expensive.

So if you figure inflatable wearers are almost all good swimmers, regular paddlers (or they wouldn't buy an inflatable), and leash wearers, and the leash is going to work 99% of the time, that doesn't leave many times the inflatable pfd would ever be needed.

In comparison, regular pfds are more often worn by poor swimmers, beginners, and non-leash wearers, so they probably save a lot more people, not just in overall numbers but also as a percentage of users.  But if all inflatable wearers switched to regular pfds, I doubt many more would be saved, since the inflatable wearers so rarely are in a position to need a pfd.

[krash]

PFD's are good and do save lives in certain situations... so do motorcycle helmets and seatbelts, not that I always wear any of these items. I am also not for the screwed up rules, regulations, and laws.

The rules and laws are kind of all over the place and different in different states.
PowerBoats you have to have one for every person on board, and in Florida children are supposed to be wearing one, but you don't have to have them readily available and most boaters have then sowed somewhere below deck.
JetSkii, you have to be wearing a PFD
Kayaks, Canoes, SUP's you just have to have one somewhere on board.
SurfBoard's PFD is not required.
Swimmers and Divers are not required to have one.
Not sure about Kite Surfers and/or Wind Surfers.

Pretty much every Law Enforcement Officers, and First Responders always wear an inflatable.

I do have and sometimes wear one of those inflatable waist packs, mainly to circumvent getting a ticket. I don't have an auto-inflatable one because if you fall over it deploys. The waist pack is legal if worn, but is a multi-step solution.. you have to pull it up over your head before inflating or you won't float face up.
I don't wear a leash, perhaps I should and discuss this with myself sometimes, but I fish from my SUP and way to many times have to jump off and do the Jesus walk on water to chase down a fast running BoneFish, but most times I am in rather shallow water.
MPO is a leash would be a better option because that SUP can quickly drift out of my reach, especially if the winds are blowing off-shore..

[headmount]

They're hot, anything is hot.  In the summer I can barely handle having a surf shirt on.  Overheating is a big problem for me. 

I suppose if I had no swimming ability then I'd consider it but then if I didn't, I probably wouldn't do what I do anyway.  If I'm off Maui, I can swim to shore.  First thing will be to rip off surf shirt, then put on goggles I have in my swim shorts.   To really gear up I'd much rather pack a pair of swim fins than a PFD.  I used to have one fin strapped onto my windsurfing harness and used it many times in big surf.  BTW being in big surf and having anything limit your ability to go down deep would be a definite drag. 

 If I was beyond swimming distance, I'd have a boat following me.  Sitting in the middle of the ocean doing nothing but floating around with a PFD would scare me to death.  May as well go to south central with a sign around your neck saying you're a grand wizard of the KKK.  My thought is that things in the water generally have more respect for moving objects than ones sitting still.  Of course if you have one of those shark repellent devices you could hang out until you got hypothermia.  Still it would be freaky. 

Fortunately we don't have rules about PFDs on SUBs.  I might wear one on a river.  Rivers are freaky, especially the Columbia.

[covesurfer]

Good stuff HM. I was always confident I'd make it in swimming if I were unfortunate enough to lose my board. But after paddling across the reef a few times the week before and during Olukai, I am less confident I could deal with all that nasty current. I really like the idea of having goggles in my pocket and a fin. I could see strapping the fin on the board but then if you lost the board, the fin would be gone too. But a fin makes more sense to me than a pfd, if there was a way to keep it on my person.

[pdxmike]

headmount--you've mentioned goggles before and that seems brilliant.  Even without salt water to sting your eyes, goggles make swimming much easier.  Fins, too, obviously, but like you said goggles just fit in a pocket. 


It does bother me to have to wear or carry a pfd on a river where I'm never more than about a hundred yards from shore.  I agree with you--if I could swim to shore, I'd choose that over bobbing around waiting to be rescued, even without sharks. 

[PonoBill]

There's an interesting characteristic of people who work for regulatory agencies who also do SUP at high levels. They're always ready to defend dumb regulations, and yet their personal practices are exactly like ours. They wear leashes and make sure they are in good condition. If they wear a PFD it's some minimal inflatable POS that passes regulatory muster. You NEVER see them on their boards wearing some type one PFD, or anything like that. But they're always ready to drone on about PFDs save lives and that they're going to be te one that recover the bodies.

I call bullshit on that.

[headmount]

headmount--you've mentioned goggles before and that seems brilliant.  Even without salt water to sting your eyes, goggles make swimming much easier.  Fins, too, obviously, but like you said goggles just fit in a pocket. 


It does bother me to have to wear or carry a pfd on a river where I'm never more than about a hundred yards from shore.  I agree with you--if I could swim to shore, I'd choose that over bobbing around waiting to be rescued, even without sharks.

Yeah stinging eyes and seeing where your straight line to shore is.  Vertigo can strike in swirling water and surf.  If you're calm the distance isn't really a big deal.  Guys do mile swims all the time but the ocean is a little more challenging than a pool.

What PBill wrote about saving lives always reminds me of Jack Nickleson in a Few Good Men... holding the line and saving lives.

[pdxmike]

Has an inflatable waist belt PFD ever saved anyone? I own one, and I use it when I am legally required to have a PFD but don't feel I actually need one. calm warm water, etc. If I am in a situation where I actually need a PFT then I wear a kayak type.  I just don't believe an inflatable around the waist adds much safety.

To me it seems the main reason a paddler needs a PFD is to get them through cold shock if the fall in cold water, or to keep them afloat if they are knocked unconscious or significantly injured. the inflatables dont help in that case. I suppose if you are far from shore and came and need to bob in the waves for hours waiting for a boat to appear, there is time to deploy the wait belt device. but using a leg leash makes that scenario much much less likely.

It wouldn't surprise me if they've hardly ever saved anyone.  Like covesurfer said, it's additional insurance, and if you have a leash that hasn't broken, you'll never need the pfd. 

Most people I know wear the inflatables to avoid tickets, and after that for the protection.  I think almost all of them also wear leashes. 

And if you can't swim well, if you insist on going in the water, you should have a regular pfd, and many of those people will anyway, since an inflatable is much more expensive.

So if you figure inflatable wearers are almost all good swimmers, regular paddlers (or they wouldn't buy an inflatable), and leash wearers, and the leash is going to work 99% of the time, that doesn't leave many times the inflatable pfd would ever be needed.

In comparison, regular pfds are more often worn by poor swimmers, beginners, and non-leash wearers, so they probably save a lot more people, not just in overall numbers but also as a percentage of users.  But if all inflatable wearers switched to regular pfds, I doubt many more would be saved, since the inflatable wearers so rarely are in a position to need a pfd.

The more I think about this, the more I like zach's question, "Has an inflatable waist belt PFD ever saved anyone?"

Since those types of pfds are almost always worn by people who are good swimmers, have some experience, and wear leashes, that means if the answer is "No" or "Hardly ever" then there's no reason those people should be required to wear them.  If the answer is "Yes" or "Often" then that gives some good justification for the pfd requirement, since it proves even these types of people with swimming ability, experience and leashes benefit from pfds. 

I'd love to know the answer to a similar question--"Has a pfd carried on a board but not worn ever saved anyone?"

I know there's no way of knowing the exact answers, but you'd think the authorities, or other groups involved in regulations, would bother to collect at least be some evidence, even if anecdotal.

[SuppaTime]

There is nothing wrong with a PFD, or anything else that you feel better having on. If you feel safer wearing one you should. I have windsurfing friends who never wore a helmet but once they started raising a family they started wearing a helmet and rib protector because they felt they owed it to their family. I totally get that.

Should they be required? Personally I think not. But I do think that rental shops should be required to tell people about safety and what a PFD (and leash) can do for you, and provide those to customers. If said customer does not choose to wear them, well then it is on them. But at least they have been told, which is half the battle. Some people just do not know there are risks.

The real problem arises when a preventable tragedy occurs and the family, the wife, or the press raises a stink. Everyone is in an uproar and demands that something be done and we end up with laws that are flouted and reviled. But the important thing is not the law, it is (1) being educated to the dangers and the safety measures available to you, and (2) making your own informed decisions.

Personally I don't like helmets, PFDs, or rib protectors (despite breaking a rib a few years back).

[yugi]

…
I’d love to know the answer to a similar question—“Has a pfd carried on a board but not worn ever saved anyone?”
…

Last year we had a SUP fatality locally.

A tourist who had rented a board. Lifejacket on board but not worn. Fell in. Didn’t know how to swim. Could’t reach the board. Witnessed from shore.

To us that is so telling of everything wrong with the “rule”. A leash would have done the trick.

I believe we should certify the board as a safety device and consider us covered if we have wear a leash.

Regulators need certifiable things. They also need to go with rules that have stood the test of time. Like a lifejacket/safety device per person on board. Every lifeguard manual covers saving people with boards. Boards are an age old safety device. We just need to help them wake up to it. Then certify the board. (Simple, like require it to float 75 Newtons min for example).

A lifejacket on an inflatable makes sense.

[UKRiverSurfers]

I use a full on sea kayaking buoyancy aid at sea every time!

And I'm a pro swimmer too 😀