Author Topic: Define "Competent" Swimmer  (Read 37691 times)

WhatsSUP

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2015, 04:06:13 PM »
All quite insightful! 

Kernel:  Thanks for sharing your experience(s).....I suspect lot's of others have their "own" scary stories and fortunately have lived to tell about it.  I guess that these unfortunate experiences are a combination of 3 things....a) pushing one's limits, b) misfortunate, b) and to even some degree, dare I say, stupidity.  Again, I'm not here to judge, and I hope others like I will gleam some comfort and knowledge from this dialogue.

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2015, 04:14:02 PM »
Too bad skydivers can't flap their arms if they need it.
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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2015, 05:19:28 PM »
So the skydivers invented their own paddle. Why flap your arm when you have wings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwMaqfwlER8

supsurf-tw

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2015, 06:07:49 PM »
Competent is relevant. Being able to have a broken leash outside at the spot you're riding and being able to swim in is being competent. Outside Sunset on a big West   or  Old Mans at 6ft. You have to match your abilities to the conditions.  When in doubt don't paddle out
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kayadogg

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2015, 06:17:54 PM »
This is a timely thread as last week I started swimming at my gym in place of a regular workout. I decided that it would serve multiple purposes. I have always felt that you can never have enough swimming experience and when it goes bad, really bad, all you're left with is you. When I lived in New England, I played underwater hockey on a consistent basis. This was the best training, short of formal free diving training and big wave survival training, that you can do. If you don't know what underwater hockey is, there's plenty of videos online that make it look as ridiculous and stupid as it sounds but it's a hell of a workout and forces you to work on your breath hold and stay calm underwater for as long as possible. If you play with guys who know what they're doing, it can get pretty intense, fins, sticks and arms everywhere, hitting you in the face, in the back, water splashing everywhere, etc., all the while you are trying to hold your breath and slide a lead puck into a goal. It's been a year and a half since I last played and I can feel it. I feel it when I surf in bigger waves and I've most definitely felt it in the pool the past 2 weeks when I've realized I'm not as strong at swimming as I think I am.

I also miss wearing rubber from head to toe, for the reasons that Creek pointed out. Much easier to float then swim. Full winter getups give you that extra buoyancy which can be nice.

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2015, 06:24:54 PM »
"Everything you want is on the other side of fear" - George Addair

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2015, 06:28:00 PM »
When my daughter was about 7, she said she wanted to learn how to boogie board.  At the time she was just finishing swimming lessons at our local pool, she got really good at that.
The pool was/is about 60' long, so I told her "as soon as you can swim from one end, and back, under water, w/o taking a breath, I'll take you out into the waves".
It took her about a week, but she did it, so then we went, and I never worried about her out in the waves with me after that.
She became "competent".
Swimming and breath holding, are equally important out in the waves.
It takes a quiver to do that.

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The Kernel

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2015, 06:36:03 PM »
This is a timely thread as last week I started swimming at my gym in place of a regular workout. I decided that it would serve multiple purposes. I have always felt that you can never have enough swimming experience and when it goes bad, really bad, all you're left with is you. When I lived in New England, I played underwater hockey on a consistent basis. This was the best training, short of formal free diving training and big wave survival training, that you can do. If you don't know what underwater hockey is, there's plenty of videos online that make it look as ridiculous and stupid as it sounds but it's a hell of a workout and forces you to work on your breath hold and stay calm underwater for as long as possible. If you play with guys who know what they're doing, it can get pretty intense, fins, sticks and arms everywhere, hitting you in the face, in the back, water splashing everywhere, etc., all the while you are trying to hold your breath and slide a lead puck into a goal. It's been a year and a half since I last played and I can feel it. I feel it when I surf in bigger waves and I've most definitely felt it in the pool the past 2 weeks when I've realized I'm not as strong at swimming as I think I am.

I also miss wearing rubber from head to toe, for the reasons that Creek pointed out. Much easier to float then swim. Full winter getups give you that extra buoyancy which can be nice.

kayadogg:

Wow....that is effing cool!  Yet another post on the Zone that has opened my mind to a new concept.  What a great way to build up the ability to stay calm under "pressure" so to speak. 

Here's a quick link to a short vid on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve8ojyXoY2M

This is exactly the type of training I need....Functional AND fun!  Obvious to see how it could translate back to keeping one's cool in the surf zone. 

If anyone wants to try this locally here in SoCal, I am game!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 06:38:59 PM by The Kernel »
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ilmsup

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2015, 07:23:35 PM »
Competent swimming just means you can swim as far as you need to to get to safety. I was shocked to find that some people don't know that when you do the crawl you inhale when your head is out of the water and exhale with the head in the water. I For starters I think you should be able to swim close to a mile doing the crawl.  Anyone who is not comfortable with the basic swim strokes needs to be very cautious about the water.

I've been swimming since a boy and have trained with master swim teams but when it comes to currents all the aquadynamic techniques we learned don't really do you much good.  When I was whitewater kayaking I learned early on that it doesn't matter how strong a swimmer you are, you don't stand a chance with the river currents of Class III and higher.

I have been out in some very stormy big short period wells and have had my share of beatings. I never had to use any of the swimming techniques I worked so hard on, training with a master team.  Rather it is about knowing how to use the force of the ocean currents to your advantage.  Unless you are big wave surfing there really is no reason to even begin to panic.  Remember waves ride you to the shore and while a wave might hold you under, unless you're talking about big wave surfing it is not going to be for very long.  If you're comfortable swimming a mile without stopping then you never need to worry about being carried a bit out of the way by a rip tide.   The key is not how good your strokes are but are you one with the water?  If you're not sure how competent you need to be, gradually test your limits with the ocean by doing some body surfing or just open water swims from time to time.  The short period big sloppy wind swells are the best days to test your limits.  Learn how to react to whitewater by diving low.  Don't worry if a rip tide carries, see it as an opportunity to swim perpendicular to the current.  When the power of the ocean excites you rather than intimidates you than you are one with the water.   Swimming around the impact zone of the ocean is more like a water polo match than a swimming competition.

PonoBill

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2015, 07:27:26 PM »
Like Ilm, I think you simply need to be able to get where you need to be when stuff goes bad. That means holding your breath, not panicking, and going into a zen state to get to the surface. If you decide you need to swim to the surface you need to still control yourself and be very efficient. Then you need to be able to sprint for a while when your leash breaks and there's a chance to get the board before its out of reach. Next it means settling down and chugging when you know you can't get the board quickly, but there's still a chance you'll get it before it's completely out of sight. And then finally making yourself as trim as you can (smooth out your camelback and perhaps reverse it to your chest, tie you paddle so it trails along your side) and going for the long haul, getting back to shore, whatever that means.

None of that has much to do with being fast except that quick dash to a board before the next set hits. My go-to stroke for the long swim is a sidestroke, because you can breath easily with just a little roll, but you can still be efficient.

You also might need a little navigation. If it's a long swim you need to scope the bottom every so often and feel for currents. If you're opposing a current you won't get far. You also don't want to swim in circles, though you might have to go parallel to the shore sometime to get out of a current.

I'm not a fast swimmer, but I've come in from Lower and upper Kanaha way too many times, and from the outer reaches of Camp One to the beach at Kanaha once. And from perhaps two miles out on the freezing Oregon coast to the sand, through rips and nasty cross currents. Most important thing is just to keep going. Even if it's slowly.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 07:56:56 PM by PonoBill »
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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2015, 10:14:52 PM »
What PDX wrote about ability pertaining to the situation is right on as well as SUPcreek's float downstream version. Kramer from the Honeymooners, "We got a saying down in the sewers Ralph, relax and float downstream."  There are definitely times when you need to conserve. 

Also swimming in a pool and swimming out in the ocean are two different animals.  I do mile swims out in the ocean on the edge of the outer reef  so panic doesn't infect my mind.  At my age I'm always concerned whether I can still cut it and that swim reminds me I'm at least in the ballpark for what I do, which isn't anything super-sized these days.

Many years ago my brother and I used to make any prospective clients to a surf camp we ran, swim out and back to the outer reef on Bali.  Our camp on Java was very isolated and the waves were real and hollow.  Medical backup was nil.  Mainly we did that to find out how bad they really wanted to go because being able to swim didn't guarantee their safety.

Breath hold and swimming under water are good as well.  With practice you can get to where you should be good in up to ten foot surf.  Beyond that you better have a float vest or be a devotee of further training.  Here  in Hawaii there is a very strong tribe of water guys that train all the time with goals like riding waves at Peahi.   But up to head high, 200m as posted earlier should do it.  Also it's definitely helpful for preventing an extra long swim if you can pour on a 50m at a reasonable rate, to get your board before the next wave.

 I'd also advise being able to prone paddle for a good distance (at least a mile) in case your blade is broken or gone.  A paddle loop (small bungee for the handle) sewn on the side of your shorts is also the bomb.

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2015, 11:31:07 PM »
Lately my wife and I have been swimming laps in a pool. It's the hardest thing for me to swim slow, with my head down, my butt up, breathing on every 3rd stroke or 5th stroke, and rolling to create the pocket, and, and , and! Ok, it's a brutal 50 yds! My technique sucks. I can swim in the ocean, but have the hardest time doing it right in a pool. Give me a snorkel, and I can swim for hours.
 
 When I was young, the thought of how far can I swim never crossed my mind. I just swam. Now that I'm over 50, with a family to support, I think about it. I've had my leash brake a few times recently. Once I feel that tension disappear, I just think shit! After I surface, I look around for my hat. Then look for my board. Sometimes it's only 50 yds away. Other times it's heading for the shore. Then you see it heading for rocks, and the real panic sets in. I usually put it in high gear to try to minimize the board damage. I found I can hold my paddle like a hand plane and body surf my way in.

 Even though I've swam to shore plenty of times, I still wonder if I can make it being tired after a long surf session. I bought a wake board vest to wear when i surf outer reefs. At our local Church break you might have a 150 yrd swim, but Nuc's it's more like a 1,000 yrds. If the conditions increase the risk, then you should increase your level of safety.   

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PonoBill

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2015, 11:53:49 PM »
It's strange how things you once thought of as easy now seem out of reach. Maybe they aren't, maybe it's all in my head.

When I was in my late twenties I lived in Belmont Shore, CA. I was a motorcycle mechanic, and after work I'd ride to a beach near Newport (don't remember the name), get in the water before dark and just swim out until the sun set. Probably a mile, maybe less. But it was a long way from the beach, I couldn't make out people on the shore. One night I was floating around as the sun went down and right behind me I heard "Hey, how's it going."

Just about killed me. It was another swimmer, taking in the sunset, like I was. He'd seen me get in the water and followed me out. Scared the crap out of me. I don't remember doing it after then. I wonder if I still could.
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WhatsSUP

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Re: Define "Competent" Swimmer
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2015, 04:05:20 AM »
Thanks to all to have responded.....this has all been very insightful, inspiring, and educational.

Couple of take away's for me:
- need to keep swimming,
- need to spend more time under the water,
- floating is good!
- introduce and practice the combat swim stroke
- leave the board on the beach from time to time and swim/train in the surf zone
- continue to stay within one's comfort zone, but don't be afraid to push limits within reason
- And like Aaron Roger's recently said/spelled out in a media interview: "R-E-L-A-X"

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