Author Topic: Step Down Rails? Good or bad  (Read 5150 times)

eeck62

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Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:14:53 PM »
All,
I am curious what everyone thinks about step down rails.  I noticed a couple of boards with step down rails lately and it has me thinking.  A couple years ago I was able to ride a friends longboard sup with fairly acute step down rails and it was horrible.  I am guessing it was the board but it seemed much more tippy than a similar board without stepdown rails.  Looking at the price of the current production boards and the quality of the boards I can have made I have started to think about what I would want in my "perfect board."  The concept makes sense, I am just curious if it works in real life?  I would be looking at something in the 8 ft x 28 in x 4 in board size.

Thoughts,
Erik
Me:  6'1" x 180
Board(S): Axis foils: HPS 980, BSC 740, 810, ART 899, 999
Jimmy Lewis Wing Board 4’10” x 23 x 71L
Rawson 7’8” x 26”
Jimmy Lewis Stun Gun 8'2" x 28.3/4 x 99L
Naish Hokua 8'5" x 28 x 115L

SlatchJim

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 04:21:31 PM »
You'll find advocates for both on this forum.  My take is that if you're coming from shortboard prone and you're aiming for that on a SUS board, you'll want them. 

Sup-position

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 05:06:02 PM »
S Rail or Step..
Either way I think they work with the right shape.
The Sim Sups and Kings work Killer...
I have some other shapes in mind that will work as well...
Ralph
Sup-position
(714) 899-3020 call, Text or Message

supsurf-tw

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 05:34:18 PM »
Step down rails are good but IMO chine rails are a better way of reducing rail volume and at the same time adding looseness to a wide, thick board.
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

Sup-position

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 06:15:09 PM »
Yes I do Like Chime rails too.
The Sim Sup 4, has those and others.
Adds to the looseness by reducing the drag to flat turn the board.
Works really well for off the top pivot re-entries.
You can go more vertical..
Ralph
Sup-position
(714) 899-3020 call, Text or Message

supsurf-tw

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 07:03:29 PM »
Yes I do Like Chime rails too.
The Sim Sup 4, has those and others.
Adds to the looseness by reducing the drag to flat turn the board.
Works really well for off the top pivot re-entries.
You can go more vertical..

Correct. As SUS progresses we're going to see short, wide tailed boards really being ridden by most that want short board performance and paddling and stability all in 1 board. Chines married to proper concaves and the right rocker and you have a winning combo.
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

AJR

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 07:23:04 PM »
Definitely good on my SIMSUP ST.  Before this I had an S4 with chined rails. To me chined vs step is a matter of preference - I personally like step because they're more stable while waiting between sets and I didn't notice a big performance difference.  The chined had a tippy feel - lots of fun once on the wave but exhausting between sets. Both are definitely better than conventional boxy rails IMO.

Califoilia

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 10:08:28 PM »
Here's what I got as an explanation from someone I consider a pretty good shaper/SUPer, who personally likes chines over steps.

His opinion was that if the step runs too far into the tail area, that the step "up" part (if there's a "step down", then conversely there's must be a "step up" part from the rail :D) creates just one more thing the water has to go "up" and over as the rail/tail is buried into the water, creating just another interruption in the water flow over the top of the board as it attempts to exit out the back of the board.

Now I'm not going to even pretend I know half as much as some of the guys that have already replied, but what that shaper/SUPer said made some pretty good sense to me, so I just thought I'd pass it along for others' consideration.
Me: 6'1"/185...(2) 5'1" Kings Foil/Wing Boards...7'10 Kings DW Board...9'6" Bob Pearson "Laird Noserider"...14' Lahui Kai "Manta"...8'0" WaveStorm if/when the proning urges still hit.

StandinDan

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 10:38:43 PM »
What Sano said:
On a conventional rail the water is only making one transitional turn over the deck before exiting then tail. On a step deck, the water makes the first turn from under the board, creating a low pressure zone then makes another turn up to the deck creating a high pressure point, then turns again over the top of the deck in another low pressure event before exiting the tail. The water has more area to traverse, thus more skin friction takes place. The water is also negotiating a series of three turns, leading to a higher degree of form, or pressure, drag.  The combination of skin friction and form drag is known as profile drag, part of the larger equation of parasite drag. This all just adds up to a loss of energy through turns.
At least this is how it was explained to me by my local shaper. 
I took his suggestion and opted for chines just before my head exploded.

Dan

XLR8

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 03:22:25 AM »
Not real sure here but I believe I saw a shape that had step down rails that stayed down all around the tail - never stepped back up on either side.  Seemed to eliminate the step up near the tail thats being referred to.  I dont know how it contributed to the overall ride.
Blkbox Surf
Instagram: @greatlakespaddler

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 03:49:09 AM »
....but it seemed much more tippy than a similar board without stepdown rails. 
Thoughts,
Erik
Bingo!
It doesn't matter how you get there, step, chine, or blending into the deck farther, once you take a rail all the way down to match a prone board, it will FEEL like your board is 2" narrower than it really is. The question people should ask themselves is... are you man enough to stand on something that feels 2" narrower?

Everything in moderation for mere mortals is my moto



supsurf-tw

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Re: Step Down Rails? Good or bad
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 06:54:30 AM »
....but it seemed much more tippy than a similar board without stepdown rails. 
Thoughts,
Erik
Bingo!
It doesn't matter how you get there, step, chine, or blending into the deck farther, once you take a rail all the way down to match a prone board, it will FEEL like your board is 2" narrower than it really is. The question people should ask themselves is... are you man enough to stand on something that feels 2" narrower?

Everything in moderation for mere mortals is my moto

So some may ask "If it feels narrower then why not just go narrower?". Well then you're back to thicker rails. Surfboard \ SUS design is always a trade off.....you don't get somethin' for nothin'. Designs are a question of balancing all elements to achieve the desired results. This is what makes designing so intriguing to those who do it. When the chines are correct and the rocker and bottom shape is correct and the outline is dialed in then you can have a magical board.
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

 


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