Water

[Admin]

it's in everything. If I'm going to eat it, I'd rather eat it in ice cream or cookies, where I can appreciate it, rather than hidden here and there in processed foods.  I'm also mostly a water drinker for that same reason. 

The branding and labeling is so highly misleading that they can snag you even if you are looking.

26 grams of sugar in 1.5 cup Kashi GoLean Crunch Cereal?  Not the worst but, Jeezus, it sounds lighter than a hippie fart.

Plus, they know us oldies can't read the labels and we aren't about to break out the reading glasses in Safeway.  Pride, man, pride!  It is bad enough to squint, swear softly, and do trombone hand with the cereal box.

Sugar is a beast.  It was a great evolutionary tactic for the species that evolved to contain it.  What a mechanism to get sense driven monkeys like us to snarf, carry and poop seeds in all directions.  Better even now as we humans love it so much that we cultivate it and ensure its survival.  Nature don't care who's winning, who has a gelatinous ass or who's healthy long term, just who reproduces.

[PonoBill]

"lighter than a hippie fart"??

[Admin]

You made it to sentence 3?  I appreciate that.  You know that I am off the drink, right?  I am not even interesting to myself.

It is a fact, however.  Conservative farts are 34 percent denser and on the whole will hang low and linger.  Hippie farts, while initially no more pleasant, are helium in comparison.  Kashi counts on this.  Queue the sitar.

[LaPerouseBay]

I can't add much to this thread, other than to say that I gave up white sugar about a decade ago.  I could feel it, that stuff is poison to me.  Dairy too.  Some cheese here and there, but ice cream or anything that looks like it was a youthful indulgence. 

Along with alcohol.  That stuff just ain't worth it.  I burn my stress in the ocean, period.  I see what it does to people and it's just horrible.  Construction is rampant with guys that I cannot recognize a decade later.  They are just about done and I'm still the same weight, just a lot more wrinkles and gray.  Full of energy and light on my feet.  Some of those guys are dead or going down, fast.

Just water for me, for many, many years.  It saddens me to see the space devoted to sugar drinks at Costco.  Energy drinks too.  Yikes. 

I do coffee, but can't handle a Starbuck's.  That stuff gives me the shakes.  Even a small cup.  I see people swilling the big ones at work and I see their mood swings.

[Chan]

It saddens me to see the space devoted to sugar drinks at Costco.  Energy drinks too.  Yikes. 

Yikes is right.  An 8 oz Redbull has 27 grams of sugar and yet brilliant, if not relentless, marketing has intertwined that brand with action sports and athletic radness.  It has also become a hit with the current nightclub crowd.  Vodka and Redbull, that has got to be one amped up group of clubbers.  I might suggest that they adhere to regular old Cocaine like we did.  Less calories and not quite as addictive.

[freetobeme]

I can't add much to this thread, other than to say that I gave up white sugar about a decade ago.  I could feel it, that stuff is poison to me.  Dairy too.  Some cheese here and there, but ice cream or anything that looks like it was a youthful indulgence. 

Along with alcohol.  That stuff just ain't worth it.  I burn my stress in the ocean, period.  I see what it does to people and it's just horrible.  Construction is rampant with guys that I cannot recognize a decade later.  They are just about done and I'm still the same weight, just a lot more wrinkles and gray.  Full of energy and light on my feet.  Some of those guys are dead or going down, fast.

Just water for me, for many, many years.  It saddens me to see the space devoted to sugar drinks at Costco.  Energy drinks too.  Yikes. 

I do coffee, but can't handle a Starbuck's.  That stuff gives me the shakes.  Even a small cup.  I see people swilling the big ones at work and I see their mood swings.

Bravo LPB. No dairy, coffee or bread when I'm on my game. I never drink soda but I'm addicted to Polar Seltzer water (orange vanilla 😋), otherwise green tea and water.

My next goal is to cut out the white sugar too. It's such a mental game. Just have to get over the initial rush and satisfaction.

[stoneaxe]

Damn I wish I had willpower....

[Tecpartner]

I read a great book about this:
The Big Book of Health and Fitness: A Practical Guide to Diet, Exercise, Healthy Aging, Illness Prevention, and... by Philip Maffetone

It was recommended to me by by one of the best watermen in my area, (molokai crossing on a traditional (prone) paddleboard level waterman)

Phil Maffeton coached marathon runners for years, and has another book on Endurance Training. 

Unfortunately I'm better at reading the book than I am at following the advice.

[pdxmike]

According to the study published in JAMA: Internal Medicine, those who got 17 to 21 percent of calories from added sugar had a 38 percent higher risk of dying from cardiovascular disease compared to those who consumed 8 percent of their calories from added sugar. The risk was more than double for those who consumed 21 percent or more of their calories from added sugar.

That sounds believable.  I don't know if the study looked at any other factors.  If everything else (such as exercise) was constant, I'd believe people eating lots of sugar would be less healthy.  If only sugar intake was considered, and nothing else, then it makes even more sense, since it's generally accepted that lots of sugar is bad for you.  Therefore, people who limit sugar are also the types who would exercise and be diligent about maintaining their health.


But with fat or cholesterol intake, I think the statistics can be misleading, because the belief has become so widespread that fat and cholesterol consumption are bad.  So, for instance, people who eat lowfat yogurt and avoid bacon are the types who would be vigilant about exercising, getting checkups, and making other healthy choices. 


In contrast, people who eat fat, red meat, lots of eggs, etc. either are at the cutting edge of nutrition knowledge (such as paleo eaters who are also likely to exercise, etc.) or they're the couch potatoes have managed to ignore nutrition advice for the last 30 years, and may also be the ones who don't exercise, do smoke and drink a lot, etc.  And for every paleo eater, there are probably 100 couch potatoes.


So the statistics will show that people eating lots of fat, red meat, eggs, cholesterol, etc. are less healthy than the lowfat yogurt eaters.  And while I believe that's entirely true, it doesn't mean the fat, meat etc. is what's making them unhealthy.  Plus, it's likely the couch-potato, fat eaters are also eating way more sugar than the lowfat yogurt eaters.

[PonoBill]

It's actually quite believable, for exactly the reasons you state. People who are eating that much sugar have lots of other unhealthy elements to their lifestyle. that's a fundamental flaw to nutritional studies, and it makes them all nearly pure nonsense.

It's also what made Bloomberg's soft drink nonsense so silly (though most people were upset that they couldn't get their beloved thirsty-two ouncer for breakfast).  Might as well fight the obesity epidemic by mandating funhouse mirrors.

And Mr. Stoneaxe, you surely have as much willpower as I do. You simply have to exercise it. Stick a picture of David on your refrigerator. that oughta help. All I'm doing is substituting water for all the other stuff I drank except coffee. I ate a bratwurst plate at Pfriem Brewpub last night. Not exactly diet fare. But I had unsweetened ice tea with it.

We'll see how it goes, and I was headed down a bit anyway. I'm about an inch away from wearing all those 36" levis I bought last year in a flurry of enthusiasm when I briefly touched 235. 

[surfafrica]

Coffee, if black, is good stuff.  It's packed with anti-oxidants and a little caffeine is good for you (especially before activity).  Just don't drink it within 1 1/2 hours of waking up in the morning or the caffeine will screw with your "wake up" hormone balance.  Stick to 1 or 2 cups a day.  Never after 1 or 2pm.

Green tea is gold too.  I keep a green tea bag in my glass and keep refilling it with cold water all day.  Gives a little flavour with some added health benefits.

[pdxmike]

It's also what made Bloomberg's soft drink nonsense so silly (though most people were upset that they couldn't get their beloved thirsty-two ouncer for breakfast).  Might as well fight the obesity epidemic by mandating funhouse mirrors.

Yes, if nutritionists ran the military, we'd be bombing all the textile factories in Syria, because ISIS would disappear if it had no more black fabric for their flags. 

[robon]

Coffee, if black, is good stuff.  It's packed with anti-oxidants and a little caffeine is good for you (especially before activity).  Just don't drink it within 1 1/2 hours of waking up in the morning or the caffeine will screw with your "wake up" hormone balance.  Stick to 1 or 2 cups a day.  Never after 1 or 2pm.

Green tea is gold too.  I keep a green tea bag in my glass and keep refilling it with cold water all day.  Gives a little flavour with some added health benefits.

Stick to 1 or 2 cups a day? Or 3-5? The book on coffee has been rewritten dozens of times and is still getting a work over as I type this. I have read the results of differing peer reviewed studies mentioning the optimum amount being in the 2-4 cups per day day range. What I have read consistently is OVER 4 - 5 cups per day can have negative impacts, with higher mortality rates for those 55 and under going up quite a bit. However, statistics have shown more than one form of cancer getting cut dramatically from drinking 4 cups or more a day, and risk of depression going down over 20%. The list goes on. For both sides of the argument..

99% of the people who drink java aren't going to wait 1.5 hours after they get up to have a cup. No way in hell I ever will.

I think the best advice on coffee is to drink it black if you can, and don't go overboard. As in, don't drink the entire pot every day. The jury is still out on what the 'optimum' amount is and probably always will be. Especially considering the associated health benefits and risks, which vary widely on how much you drink. 1 cup, 3 cups, 4 cups. Whatever. The studies are highly variable and contingent on many things. 

[PonoBill]

I use a spin foamer to make hot, foamed milk for my coffee. tastes great, and it's probably no more than a half ounce of milk. I don't really see how that amount of dairy could mean much.

[pdxmike]

Coffee, if black, is good stuff.  It's packed with anti-oxidants and a little caffeine is good for you (especially before activity).  Just don't drink it within 1 1/2 hours of waking up in the morning or the caffeine will screw with your "wake up" hormone balance.  Stick to 1 or 2 cups a day.  Never after 1 or 2pm.

Green tea is gold too.  I keep a green tea bag in my glass and keep refilling it with cold water all day.  Gives a little flavour with some added health benefits.

Stick to 1 or 2 cups a day? Or 3-5? The book on coffee has been rewritten dozens of times and is still getting a work over as I type this. I have read the results of differing peer reviewed studies mentioning the optimum amount being in the 2-4 cups per day day range. What I have read consistently is OVER 4 - 5 cups per day can have negative impacts, with higher mortality rates for those 55 and under going up quite a bit. However, statistics have shown more than one form of cancer getting cut dramatically from drinking 4 cups or more a day, and risk of depression going down over 20%. The list goes on. For both sides of the argument..

99% of the people who drink java aren't going to wait 1.5 hours after they get up to have a cup. No way in hell I ever will.

I think the best advice on coffee is to drink it black if you can, and don't go overboard. As in, don't drink the entire pot every day. The jury is still out on what the 'optimum' amount is and probably always will be. Especially considering the associated health benefits and risks, which vary widely on how much you drink. 1 cup, 3 cups, 4 cups. Whatever. The studies are highly variable and contingent on many things.

Coffee is another thing where statistics may be misleading.  I bet some people drink 5 cups/day because they love coffee.  Many others are drinking it because they don't get enough sleep, have high-stress jobs, are substituting it for other snacking because they're overweight, doing it to quit smoking, etc.   So the health of heavy users may not be great, but it may not have much to do with drinking coffee.  It could be despite it for that matter.  They could be drinking coffee because they're not healthy, not getting unhealthy because they're drinking coffee. 


Nobody would claim that if we only got poor people into BMWs they'd be wealthier, since BMW drivers have high incomes, but that thinking happens all the time with nutrition.


So your general moderation suggestion makes sense to me, and is probably about as "scientific" as any recommendation can be.