Is There Such a Thing As A Good Combo Downwind/Flat Water Racing Board?

[Area 10]

Keep in mind that it’s not just flat water performance. The two boards you mentioned do okay in flat water, really good downwind and side chop. It’s up wind that they do really bad.

Chilly - how does the Bullet 12 go upwind? It's quite a different shape in the nose from the Bullet 14v1 and M14, with less rocker (?) I think, so does it fare better?

[Chilly]

Keep in mind that it’s not just flat water performance. The two boards you mentioned do okay in flat water, really good downwind and side chop. It’s up wind that they do really bad.

Chilly - how does the Bullet 12 go upwind? It's quite a different shape in the nose from the Bullet 14v1 and M14, with less rocker (?) I think, so does it fare better?

Area 10 - Compared to a displacement nose it’s significantly slower when facing a headwind, but compared to a Bullet 14 V1 or M14 it’s a big improvement (I have paddled both).  The Bullet 12 accelerates with any little bump and rolls nicely with side chop. In flat-water it’s almost as fast as a displacement race board.

[justingordon]

Gary, I posted a detailed response to you on TalkSurf.com that compares the SIC X-12 and the SIC Bullet 17. The editor is sure better on TalkSurf for writing a review!!!

BTW, TalkSurf.com is giving away two free entries to the July 20th Maliko Maui Paddleboard race, to be raffled off to two users, so it's worth signing up. You've got until Tuesday, July 8 to be entered, and if you're not Maui, you can transfer your entry. Details here.

I made this go-pro video for the TalkSurf.com article that really shows the two boards in action:

[Jacko]

One board not mentioned here is the Fanatic which goes unreal in DW and can hold it's own in any flatwater race!!

[Chilly]

I got to paddle the Fanatic Flatwater 14’ x 26.5 in choppy and flat conditions this weekend. I don’t understand why Fanatic calls it a pure flatwater board. I found it to be a very good all-around race board, IMO more so than the Falcon HRS. Just by adjusting your feet a few inches turns it from a flatwater to an ocean board. It was fast, easy to turn, and stable in the chop. It won’t do as good as the HRS in a downwind, but a lot better than a pure flatwater board. I would add it to my short list of all-around race boards, the AllStar and Javelin.

[Luc Benac]

Keep in mind that it’s not just flat water performance. The two boards you mentioned do okay in flat water, really good downwind and side chop. It’s up wind that they do really bad.

That is a very good point. Are you talking strictly about the original Bullet and M-14 design or has that been improved a lot with the new designs which are "flater"?
We do not have much downwind here other that the return from where you have paddled upwind to :-)

Cheers,

Luc

[Chilly]

Keep in mind that it’s not just flat water performance. The two boards you mentioned do okay in flat water, really good downwind and side chop. It’s up wind that they do really bad.

That is a very good point. Are you talking strictly about the original Bullet and M-14 design or has that been improved a lot with the new designs which are "flater"?
We do not have much downwind here other that the return from where you have paddled upwind to :-)

Cheers,

Luc

I really can’t comment on the Bullet 14 V2 because I haven’t paddled one yet. The new V2 design looks similar to the Bullet 12 which is a big improvement in upwind performance to the Bullet 14 V1, but still you can’t compare it to a displacement nose shape with a flatter rocker. Of course I’m generalizing and like everything in this sport you have to compromise on what you want to give up.

[robon]

I'm also wondering about the newer generation of DW boards that have a flatter rocker with more volume up front and a streamlined nose. It's been mentioned on this thread about DW boards that perform poorly up wind, but boards such as the Dart and newer SIC offerings look like they would do better than older models with more rocker, less volume and the more surf shape nose. I know how nose slap feels and it has to be less efficient than cutting through and even boofing through oncoming waves, but do the new shapes still slap up and over waves or are they cutting through somewhat?

[yugi]

^ The underside of the nose of the Rogue Rage is very slightly domed as opposed to pure flat (or even concave) of other downwind boards and doesn't have huge rocker. In chop and especially upwind it is noticeably better. It doesn't cut the wave like a displacement hull but it slaps a lot less and plows right through. The thing is it is very very good downwind too, feels just like a true planing hull. It really is a good downwind board with a bit of race built in.

Upwind I find it is so much more about the paddler than the board that it hardly matters. I used to tag along a decent group  of paddlers on race boards with my surfboard. Upwind in a good breeze was the conditions where I was most even with the others. Flats at a good speed was where I was left behind - once the speed was over the top end of my board.

It's true that for a DW board with big rocker like a Bullet V1 or Jimmy Lewis M14 there is a certain size wind chop that just slaps the hull under the nose and you feel it is slowing the board down. One can limit it a bit by standing further forward than normal.

[srfnff]

There's a good discussion on this thread that adds to the dialogue.

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,24418.0.html

[photofr]

The only combo that I can really see is: Downwind / Touring with gear as I can imagine myself riding a 17' board DW one day and tour 20-35 miles the next day on flat water, or any other body of water.

As far as racing, I would have to compare the original question with surfskis:
They kinda work, but not really.
When we get to either extremes, they definitely do not work for us: huge downwind conditions, in my experience, need more rocker, YET rocker will slow you down on a totally flat body of water.

[PonoBill]

Photo is right, there's a fundamental limitation in rocker design. You can get away with no rocker and go downwind--Cove does it with his Javellin, but I'd hardly call that "good". More like a dog singing. It's not that it's good, it's that fido sings at all.

[SaMoSUP]

So am I screwed if I do my first downwinder on a 12'6 custom Bark in Malibu? Or is Malibu "flatwater" relatively speaking?

[PonoBill]

You'll be fine in Malibu.

[surf monkey]

I'm waiting for DJ to get his new 2015 Naish Javelin, looking forward to the review. When DJ the DW video king sells his new downwind board to buy a race board, I'm interested.

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,24434.0.html