Author Topic: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?  (Read 10384 times)

Henrik F

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
    • Email
Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« on: March 17, 2014, 12:06:36 PM »
Hello!
Does anyone know the different weights of a Fanatic Falcon 12'6x27.25 HRS and the same length x width in CARBON?

Many thanks

Henrik F
crosswater.se

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 11:50:46 AM »
I already asked this Q on this forum and I didn't get an answer either. Fanatic doesn't seem to publish its raceboard weights. I guess it's all a state secret and the dealers are afraid to spill the beans...

Henrik F

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 12:32:46 PM »
I already asked this Q on this forum and I didn't get an answer either. Fanatic doesn't seem to publish its raceboard weights. I guess it's all a state secret and the dealers are afraid to spill the beans...

They should. My experience is that they make great and very light, durable boards. I have a Flatwater 14' 2012 and that one is 11.5kg. Nothing to be ashamed of. That secracy policy sucks.

Henrik F

crosswater.se

cruzanboard

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 01:14:03 PM »
I have  a 2013 Fanatic Falcon 12'6x27 carbon. (yes, the tippy one).
Checked it on the bathroom scale and got approximate weight at 24 lbs. (convert as needed).
Agreed, don't know why they don't list weights in the specs.

Bruce W.

raf

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
    • View Profile
    • soposup.com
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 05:10:03 PM »
I dont think its dealers being afraid to spill the beans, or even the brand itself keeping secrets.  Its that any 2 boards may have different weights.  Thats just the nature of an imperfect manufacturing process.  They can guarantee identical length and width but not weight.  If they published a weight at say "23 lbs" and the dealer gets one at 23.7 and another at 24.1, he's going to have a hard time selling those. 

I have returned boards that were over (by at least a pound) manufacturers specced weight.  I agree that they should publish weights, and that they should make sure their boards are within a couple ounces of those published specs.  Maybe in the future!

Henrik F

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 09:55:40 PM »
I dont think its dealers being afraid to spill the beans, or even the brand itself keeping secrets.  Its that any 2 boards may have different weights.  Thats just the nature of an imperfect manufacturing process.  They can guarantee identical length and width but not weight.  If they published a weight at say "23 lbs" and the dealer gets one at 23.7 and another at 24.1, he's going to have a hard time selling those. 

I have returned boards that were over (by at least a pound) manufacturers specced weight.  I agree that they should publish weights, and that they should make sure their boards are within a couple ounces of those published specs.  Maybe in the future!
Many brands tell the weight but covering with +-  % Like that version better than not telling at all.


Henrik F
crosswater.se

pdxmike

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 6186
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 10:29:53 PM »
Good thing there's no minimum weight limits for boards in races, or the uncertainty would create a huge mess.  Imagine buying a board spec'd right at or just over the weight limit, then getting disqualified at the race because it was actually an ounce under the limit.  Manufacturers would have to start guaranteeing weights of individual boards.  "+/-" wouldn't cut it.  Being off by an ounce or two could make a board worthless.

Henrik F

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 11:09:20 PM »
Good thing there's no minimum weight limits for boards in races, or the uncertainty would create a huge mess.  Imagine buying a board spec'd right at or just over the weight limit, then getting disqualified at the race because it was actually an ounce under the limit.  Manufacturers would have to start guaranteeing weights of individual boards.  "+/-" wouldn't cut it.  Being off by an ounce or two could make a board worthless.
Didn't think about the weight limits when I wrote about +-%. So pdxmike you are absolutely right! And in SUPAA's new rules they do have limitations:

"14’ width minimum of 23’’ inches as measured at the 3 inch rail mark.

12’6 width minimum of 23.75’’ inches as measured at the 3 inch rail mark.

14’ weight minimum of 10kg (22.05 lbs)

12’6 weight minimum of 9kg (19.84 lbs)

No board shall have raised rails greater than 4.92 inches (12.5 cm) as measured from the standing area to the top of the rail."

Cannot go +/-% there.

Henrik F
crosswater.se

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 02:49:41 AM »
It would be quite easy to add weight to underweight boards for races. Presumably this is done in e.g. some Olympic events where there are minimum weights.

Fanatic should publish their weights within tolerances like most other manufacturers do. People are paying often around 50% more for a carbon board that weighs maybe only a couple of pounds less than the standard construction. So I think the customer needs to know how much of a weight saving they are getting for such a huge amount of extra money.

Incidentally, it is time we moved away from this "carbon" nonsense and started building light, strong boards without carbon. If Jimmy Lewis can do it (with a proper paint job not this ridiculous "brushed carbon" nonsense) then the other manufacturers should be able to. And custom shapers can get even lighter. In some cases the constructions available now actually seem worse than what was available a few years ago.

raf

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
    • View Profile
    • soposup.com
    • Email
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 04:19:13 AM »
Just to clarify, I was not referring to Fanatic in my hypothetical example of overweight boards.  I was replying to the generic question of why some companies do not post weights, and it is only my opinion :D


JimK

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
  • Big Guys can have fun too!
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 08:13:16 AM »
Sorry Folks I hadn't seen the Fanatic weight question. I can't speak to why EXACTLY But I've heard the manufacturing process is tweaked all the time so weights vary during a production run
But for the 12'6 X 27" The Target weight + or - 6% is 24lbs

One quick point here
 The REAL advantage of using a carbon sandwich construction (and using 3K carbon like Fanatic and other quality mfgs do) is a weight to STIFFNESS ratio. Other mat'ls and mfging processes can make lighter boards but NOT as light and STIFF like carbon fiber Also there is a myriad of quality and quantity of carbon available The top quality is refered to by its weight in a 1m square eg 3K carbon fiber...just cause its carbon it mostly isn't high modulus carbon like 3K

just thought I set the record straight

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
Most people are concerned more about weight and durability than weight and stiffness. I've yet to hear anyone complain that "my board isn't stiff enough" (unless it's an inflatable) whereas I hear them complain a helluva lot about durability, and occasionally about weight.

I have yet to see any figures quoted about the relative stiffness (however that is measured) of a full PVC/glass sandwich vs. a carbon/glass layup. JimK -do you have any statistics to support this point, or is this just what the manufacturers tell us? How do they measure stiffness?

And in fact the only boards recently where I've wondered about stiffness have been carbon boards.

Dwight (DW)

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4780
    • View Profile
    • supSURFmachines
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 08:49:47 AM »
The top quality is refered to by its weight in a 1m square eg 3K carbon fiber...just cause its carbon it mostly isn't high modulus carbon like 3K


You've been listening to marketing people BS you again haven't you  ;D

Got your facts wrong.

The K is the tow count. Has little to do with weight per sq yard.  3K comes in several "weights".  It also comes in commercial and mil spec strengths. Cost is the same from my source.

The best carbon is actually 1K for boards. It costs double what 3K is. 3K is the cheapest carbon you can use in a board and what everyone uses.

Bean

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4211
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 02:30:06 PM »
Meaning 3,000 individual filaments in each tow (think yarn).

JimK

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
  • Big Guys can have fun too!
    • View Profile
Re: Fanatic Falcon weight HRS vs CARBON?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 08:12:35 AM »
I can only relay what I've been told If you wanna call that marketing BS well all I say is what my grandfather said
"I only know what I read in the newspaper"
DW refering to my post BS AGAIN is just RUDE

JimK

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: GPT 5, Sam Altman, What's coming
[Random]
PonoBill
March 17, 2024, 05:30:44 PM
post Re: 2024 North Mode Pro wings:
[Classifieds]
cnski
March 17, 2024, 05:09:04 PM
post Re: HOT Chicks on Stand Up Paddle Boards!
[SUP General]
burchas
March 17, 2024, 08:50:00 AM
post Re: HOT Chicks on Stand Up Paddle Boards!
[SUP General]
Night Wing
March 16, 2024, 07:02:05 PM
post Re: HOT Chicks on Stand Up Paddle Boards!
[SUP General]
blueplanetsurf
March 16, 2024, 03:28:57 PM
post Re: GPT 5, Sam Altman, What's coming
[Random]
LaPerouseBay
March 14, 2024, 12:38:42 PM
post Re: GPT 5, Sam Altman, What's coming
[Random]
LaPerouseBay
March 13, 2024, 07:59:28 PM
post Re: FS - Ocean Rodeo Glide A-Series Wings (3m/ 4m / 5m), USA
[Classifieds]
StellaBlu
March 12, 2024, 07:27:21 AM
post FS - Kalama Barracuda
[Classifieds]
VB_Foil
March 11, 2024, 05:43:58 PM
post Re: Vision Pro
[Random]
Bean
March 11, 2024, 03:46:42 PM
post Re: Vision Pro
[Random]
PonoBill
March 09, 2024, 11:06:32 AM
post Happy International Women's Day, lady zoners!
[General Discussion]
LaPerouseBay
March 08, 2024, 07:28:47 PM
post Re: Vision Pro
[Random]
Admin
March 08, 2024, 04:45:53 AM
post Re: Vision Pro
[Random]
PonoBill
March 06, 2024, 11:00:24 PM
post Re: Vision Pro
[Random]
Admin
March 06, 2024, 10:15:55 AM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal