Author Topic: New to the Zone.  (Read 16059 times)

SanDogSupper

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 07:10:18 AM »
I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings).  But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards.

I've always equated "custom" to something that was specifically tailored to a person's skill, strengths, weaknesses, physical attributes, style, etc. One example being tennis rackets the pros use...while they may say Wilson or Head or whatever, they're not the same one you'd pick up at Sports Authority or Big 5. I imagine it's the same for pro surf/sup'ers in the magazines riding Naish, Hobie, etc.

So when I started reading about custom boards I pictured the shaper going out with the SUPer and creating a board that would compliment/enhance his particular style/ability. From what I'm reading here, "custom" more or less means "not mass produced".

raf

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 08:24:30 AM »
I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings).  But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards.

I've always equated "custom" to something that was specifically tailored to a person's skill, strengths, weaknesses, physical attributes, style, etc. One example being tennis rackets the pros use...while they may say Wilson or Head or whatever, they're not the same one you'd pick up at Sports Authority or Big 5. I imagine it's the same for pro surf/sup'ers in the magazines riding Naish, Hobie, etc.

So when I started reading about custom boards I pictured the shaper going out with the SUPer and creating a board that would compliment/enhance his particular style/ability. From what I'm reading here, "custom" more or less means "not mass produced".

Custom vs Production ("mass-produced" i guess) is more about philosophy than process.  Custom = find a client 1st, then build him/her a board.  Production = build the board you think a client will buy. 

supdiscobay

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 09:35:58 AM »
"Custom vs Production ("mass-produced" i guess) is more about philosophy than process.  Custom = find a client 1st, then build him/her a board.  Production = build the board you think a client will buy. "

I agree RAF. Every "custom" board I have had, always started out with several long discussions with the shaper, as to what I wanted the board to do for me. Some worked and some didn't thats the gamble with custom.

I think in the context of this discussion though, custom refers to more traditional board construction.  For prone boards, most shapers have "off the shelf" models, but still will build you a custom board.  No real difference in the final product, but it was made specifically for you.  For SUP's, there are very few shapers who will build you a custom board.  Most SUP boards come from some level of mass production, but they are still essentially hand made boards, just a lot of them being built at the same time.

For prone, all my boards are true customs.  Why not, they didn't cost any more than an off the shelf model.  However, for SUP, I have production boards.  Joe Blair sells an 8'10" SUP for $880.  To get a custom SUP from Joe, is over $1,200.  I know that that trend is changing, especially when I see Naish 32' wides going for a ridiculous $2,000+.  why would anyone pay that money for a Naish.

The one advantage that SUP has is that you can demo most boards now.  However, even if demoed that Naish and really loved, I think I would just have a custom built, with similar design traits as the Naish.  I know that the resale not might be as good, but every sup I have sold, I let the buyer go out and use it.  A custom just might take a little longer to sell.  As far as waiting for a custom to get built, I am amazed how long some of the zoners in distant lands wait to get a board, they have only read about. 

So far I have ridden about 15 different surf sup's, and am getting to that point where I know what I want, and as usual it all comes down to a compromise between balance and performance.  Will I buy custom or "pop-out".  Don't know yet!
8'5" Starboard Pocket Rocket, 8'0" Kazuma Fugu custom,  8'10" Kings Sidewinder, 10' Starboard Noserider, 14' BARK Carbon Dominator, SIC F16 V3, KeNalu and Quickblade paddles, 19' Eaton Prone, 67" Goode 9700

spindrift

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 11:33:08 AM »
Custom board builders as well as production board brands are known for their vision of what works best in the water, and favored by surfers that believe in their vision. The level of customization is often based on board length determined by the surfer's physical characteristics. A truly custom board is tailored specifically for what a surfer likes to do, her style, and type of wave surfed. This requires the surfer to know what they like through a lot of trial and error. Is it possible to find a production board that meets your vision, style, and wave? Sure it is. Is one more likely to find that perfect combination by having it custom made? Yes, provided you know exactly what you want and the builder is good at interpreting your request and executing the order.

A pop-out connotes a cheap mass produced poor quality board purchased by the uninformed. In my neck of the woods Hanson, Hobie, Surfboards Hawaii, Dewy Weber, Gordon and Smith, Harbour, et. al churned out hundreds if not thousands of boards that were never considered pop-outs. So even "mass produced" is a difficult description of the ilk.
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SaMoSUP

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 11:57:55 AM »
I think two good examples to demonstrate custom vs pop-out/production are Bark & SIC. They both do custom boards and also have pop-out/production lines.

Bark has their pop-outs in the Dominator, Competitor, Candice boards made by Surftech.
SIC has their pop-outs in the Bullets, X Series, Recon made by Flo Sports.

So pop-outs/production boards aren't necessarily cheap mass produced poor quality boards purchased by the uninformed. Would you consider Coreban, Fanatic, Naish, Riviera, etc. to be cheap and poor quality?

Tamarack Janitor

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2014, 12:11:10 PM »
My thoughts are once you ride a custom its very hard to go back to riding a mass produced board. They just feel way different. I mean its to me like a complete different type of board, even if the specs are very close to one another.  I started this thought with the the idea of how somebody on this zone gets a new mass produce board, right away somebody ask what does it weigh? It seems to be the first and most important question. My thoughts are no matter what it weighs its not going to be as light as a custom with most of the same measurements.  I guess another thought I had was you feed the people who feed you. I spend my money when i can on a custom, my shaper turns around and spends his money at my place of business, in turn it stays in our local area. Its very hard for me to imagine just giving my money to a big business, unfortunately surfing prone or surfing sup has really turned into big business. Totally heartbreaking.

Tom

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2014, 12:45:59 PM »
I'm a big custom fan and I think that is in large part due to my shaper at PlusOne. I can give him a rough idea of what I want the board to do and he'll advise me on size and shape. For instance, I'll tell him where I'm planning on surfing, that I want it similar to another board he made me, but either faster, more stable, better at catching waves, what ever. We then discuss the options and he will come up with another magic board. This is how I define a true custom.

sup_surf_giant

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2014, 01:24:21 PM »
My size precludes me from buying pop-out boards, considering I like riding smaller equipment.

If like the unwashed SUP masses who just drop in and go straight on a 10'6 from China, I'd have a pile of options to choose from.

My first two boards were the 11'6 and the 10'6 from Riviera. $800' including a paddle? They must be made by children in Thailand.
Taller than most, shorter than others.

SUP Sports ®

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2014, 02:30:14 PM »
We provide our clients with options...it's not just a production vs custom choice with our board line...
We currently have 22 board models that we offer as production OR custom...with several different available construction and color options...and, we do have demo boards of many of the models...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html

http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp

We chose to offer some custom models not as production models...of course, we can tweak any of our custom models to exact specifications outside of the set model  parameters...

We also offer quasi-custom tweaking on our production boards with ~90 day turnaround times from our factory...our California built customs run 3-7 weeks dependent on normal glass shop operation capacity...

We also offer ultra-premium artisan quality customs that can run out to 8 weeks...although, we have an incredible blue flame 9'2" Stoke carbon getting finished this week that's at the 5 week mark...not bad with the holiday season...

http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html
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spindrift

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 06:08:22 PM »
Early in this thread the question asked was "what is a pop-out?" I agree with those that suggest mass production does not adequately describe what surfers meant when they coined the term. "Production board" is a good way to describe a well made board that is produced in large quantities. Custom board is a good way to describe a board that is made for a specific person. Pop-out in the early days did mean mass produced but more importantly meant inferior quality and basically soulless. I would not ascribe the term pop-out to a board just because it is made in quantity. On the other hand I've seen boards that started to take on water in their first season that absolutely defined the term.
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stoneaxe

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2014, 06:29:36 PM »
I've always been a proponent of demoing. It's critical for beginners and even novices. I know I always liked being able to try before I buy, tougher to do with your local shaper (at least for most...I wish Wardog was closer)

Now that I know what I'm looking for (at least I think I do) I'll likely go custom from this point on. Unless I get on a production board that feels awesome.... ;D

Welcome to the zone.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 06:31:50 PM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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supuk

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2014, 12:34:41 AM »
after doing a hole load of repairs for people recently on production boards and seeing how they are made its shocking whats under all that paint, and when you know whats under its criminal to think what the companies charge.

 Even if you pay the same amount for a custom board if its from a reputable shaper with any sort of pride in what they do they will be using the best materials they can get and not chop strand matt, plumbers plastic pipe and metal staples that seam to be the regular thing im finding at the moment even from the big name brands coming out of cobra.

 Its also interesting to see most of the companies are now all so cutting the amount of carbon going into there boards in half going by there technical spec to try and save some money.

sup_surf_giant

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2014, 03:53:09 PM »
We provide our clients with options...it's not just a production vs custom choice with our board line...
We currently have 22 board models that we offer as production OR custom...with several different available construction and color options...and, we do have demo boards of many of the models...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2011/09/supsports-new-sup-models.html

http://surfingsports.com/hammer.asp

We chose to offer some custom models not as production models...of course, we can tweak any of our custom models to exact specifications outside of the set model  parameters...

We also offer quasi-custom tweaking on our production boards with ~90 day turnaround times from our factory...our California built customs run 3-7 weeks dependent on normal glass shop operation capacity...

We also offer ultra-premium artisan quality customs that can run out to 8 weeks...although, we have an incredible blue flame 9'2" Stoke carbon getting finished this week that's at the 5 week mark...not bad with the holiday season...

http://surfingsports.com/sups_ultra_premium/album/index.html

I forgot about you guys. You guys do have very high-end "pop-out" stuff for a spectrum of paddlers/surfers AND your custom stuff also reaches from the little to the leviathan.
Taller than most, shorter than others.

sup_surf_giant

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2014, 03:53:45 PM »
Custom board is a good way to describe a board that is made for a specific person. Pop-out in the early days did mean mass produced but more importantly meant inferior quality and basically soulless. I would not ascribe the term pop-out to a board just because it is made in quantity. On the other hand I've seen boards that started to take on water in their first season that absolutely defined the term.

Agreed.
Taller than most, shorter than others.

spindrift

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2014, 04:27:25 PM »
after doing a hole load of repairs for people recently on production boards and seeing how they are made its shocking whats under all that paint, and when you know whats under its criminal to think what the companies charge.

 Even if you pay the same amount for a custom board if its from a reputable shaper with any sort of pride in what they do they will be using the best materials they can get and not chop strand matt, plumbers plastic pipe and metal staples that seam to be the regular thing im finding at the moment even from the big name brands coming out of cobra.

 Its also interesting to see most of the companies are now all so cutting the amount of carbon going into there boards in half going by there technical spec to try and save some money.

Is there any way to know what brands cut corners that come out of Cobra or do they all  cut corners? 
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