Author Topic: New to the Zone.  (Read 16061 times)

PonoBill

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 11:50:29 AM »
Boards for SUP are following a Windsurfing trajectory, not a surfboard trajectory. In the early days of windsurfing you moved UP to a custom board, but the manufacturing processes changed and "pop outs" became stronger, lighter and more progressive. The people making 50 of a board do a lot more testing and refinement than people making one.

What is fairly rare is having a custom shaper who SUPs and who cares about SUP other than as a revenue stream. Here on Maui we have Bill Foote, Dave Peterson, Dave Kalama, Sean Ordonez, JImmy Lewis, and many others who have an encyclopedic knowledge of what works. People here ride those boards. Sure, there's plenty of Naish and starboard boards, but the lineup on most days has custom shaping well represented. I have a bandolier of Foote's, a Kalama and an L41. That reminds me, I need to talk to Bill about the board he's making me.

If you want a board now, today, you're probably not going to wait for a custom shape. It takes forethought to get one made. If you're buying something "local" off the rack, you're missing out on the bespoke element of custom and honestly, you should just find something that works for a good price. Then find one of those shapers that really is into SUP and tell them what you want to do. My first custom Foote felt like a magic carpet. I still have it. If it was a tiny bit less beat up it would go on the wall.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Tamarack Janitor

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 12:03:09 PM »
Maybe i am very spoiled in the sense that I've really only owned custom boards. I was taught that most surfers just did it that way. Ive seen plenty of my friends own pop outs and have even tried them from time to time, but most of the time they just felt like oil tankers,compared to the feeling of something fitting so comfortable as a custom board. I guess I just thought with the internet everywhere and everybody owing a computer it would be very easy to find some one in the good ole USA to make you any sort of board you wanted. One final thought. I've had boards made for me that I thought would just kill the waves and they ended up being complete duds.. That feeling sucks.  One good thing my shaper does is he takes the board back gives me a credit and then sells the board that was a dud. I have seen a few shapers do that. How many big box sup sellers and pop out board makers would make any sort of sacrifice like that?

PonoBill

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2014, 12:41:57 PM »
Usually not necessary. If you buy a Pop out (they really aren't pop outs by the way) and it doesn't work for you most dealers have some kind of workable policy. More to the point, most have a demo fleet. The surprising thing is that most of the production board builders are leading the way for performance boards. I thought they'd stick to the bigger stuff with a larger market, but they're deep into boards that I couldn't stand on.

The general surf market is as style-driven as any fashion show. SUPs are currently less so. The anti-pop out sentiment has been nurtured in surf culture since the 60's. I remember when it was the topic of most of the surf cartoons--to the point of being predictable and boring propaganda.

It will change, though in what direction I couldn't say. I don't think there is anyone making a living shaping windsurfing boards--and the production boards sell for $3K and up. I could be wrong about that, but it's what I see in Maui and Hood River.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Weasels wake

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 01:29:14 PM »
"Pop-outs", mostly a product of the 60's, as Bill mentioned.  Boards made overseas and sold in department stores mostly.  I remember the first one I ever saw, a 10' heavy board with racing stripes on it, being sold in Montgomery Wards in San Diego, in about 1964 when I was 14.  The brand name was "Surf City" or something stupid like that.
Later that same year, I got my first board, a used South Coast and I couldn't have been happier.
Followed soon by a couple of Carl Ekstroms note the asymmetrical tails, he made the first asymmetricals in San Diego.
I wish I still had those,,,,,,,, don't we all.

I just noticed in that pic, that we had one of those modern rotating TV antennas!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 01:33:18 PM by Weasels wake »
It takes a quiver to do that.

spindrift

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2014, 01:53:37 PM »
I've always had custom surfboards. My last longboard was shaped by John Keys at Encinitas. I owned a series of Dill windsurfers until I left the sport; I still have an 8'2" in the garage. Conversely in standup I've never owned a custom board. They have all been production and I've been very happy with them. My most recent purchase is a production 2014 Naish 14' Glide GX. However in surf I've always appreciated the feel of a custom glass board. To me they feel more alive under foot compared to a production board. Though production boards are light and durable, my next SUP for surf will be a custom.
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raf

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2014, 02:30:19 PM »
I think most people use the term "pop-outs" to describe mass produced, and therefore cheaper boards (in both meanings).  But in fact these production boards aren't made in a very different way from custom boards.  The cheapest production boards are made exactly like customs; hand-laid glass on foam.  More expensive brands will use more advanced techniques, such as vacuum bagging and alternate materials in the laminations.  These are also being used by custom shapers. 

The only true "pop-outs" are being made by brands like BIC, where the board literally pops out of a mold (well, sort of).  But this is an extremely expensive and hi-tech way to make boards, and there are very few companies making boards this way.  You would need to sell a ton to start making money...which is what Bic does. 

I'm not arguing against custom boards.  A good relationship with a knowledgable custom shaper will undoubtedly lead to the best board you can own.  I just thought I'd point out that the difference between custom boards and production boards aren't  necessarily that significant.  There's good and bad of both.


LeftSide

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2014, 02:56:53 PM »
Most custom shapers are making higher performance surf SUP boards at lower cost to consumer than the mass production stuff.

It's the opposite of how mass production is supposed to work. If the high end Starboards and Naish LE's were $1,200, then they would be a good deal. Over $2,000 is a joke.

1tuberider

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2014, 03:26:05 PM »
I have been surfing most of 50 years.  Pop outs of the 60's were rejects and not popular.
Boards back then were around $100.  Then I windsurfed starting in the 80's and the pop outs for windsurfing were terrific. Still surfing when the modern pop outs hit, I switched to them, because they were good. Then when I started sup it was on a starboard 12'6 that I picked up on my annual trip to the gorge. By this time I was used to the pop out from windsurfing and to be honest they surfed very good.  I even liked them more than my customs of the day.  So I stayed with factory pop outs while sup surfing.  They were all good and always better than the one before. Now I want to replace my favorite pop out with a new one and sticker shock broke the deal.  I have a custom on order all carbon for a grand less than the pop out.  Looks like I may have gone full circle and will probably stay with customs unless I get back into making my own.  I used to shape in the 70's and still have all the tools.  Last board I shaped was for a friend I rescued from his own destructive shaping skills.  He took that board and placed 1st on it in our contest.  I don't make boards now because I hate glassing. Anyway, todays pop outs are really worthy, especially the carbon ones, but price is killing me, and I have a job, just think what a barrier it is to someone without a bank account.

You can do far worse in board purchases than what many of the pop outs offer but price is going to be in favor of the home town factory.  I will see how my custom holds up before I order another unless its a lemon then I will either make my own or get another pop out. There is that risk because I am not picking it off the rack already made.

and welcome to the Zone. 

Tamarack Janitor

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 03:51:42 PM »
Just wanted you all to know how much I enjoy these topics.  Totally stoaked.  I realized I may have come across a certain way. Sorry about that.  I love sup surfing. It has really opened my eyes with the different type of people you come across.  Hope everybody enjoys sup surfing as much as I do.  All the points everybody has made on here are pretty neat.

PtBobSup

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 04:55:07 PM »
I suspect that the correlation between custom and production SUP purchases is directly related to having local SUP shapers.   Seems to me like not many places have that option.   It sure would be great.

I thought the kooks on pop outs thing was pretty funny.  A lot of SUP folks are going to be of an age where that really doesn't matter.   I am pretty sure I am a kook on a popout. 

I would say I try to support my local shop but they really don't have much.  The decent shop is an hour away in the car so my local might just be right here.  I have bought from Easy Rider and JimK just sold me a wetsuit this week.  These guys aren't local but sitting here at my desk, it sort of feels like they are.




PonoBill

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 06:17:12 PM »
originally the term pop-out is just purely a pejorative judgement of someone making boards quickly, without custom shaping--just popping them out. The cartoons of the day often showed boards popping out of a big toaster, which lead people to believe they were molded in one piece. Later it came to mean a concrete mold was covered in a few layers of fiberglass, some kind of stringer (usually plastic) was added. Add some polyurethane foaming base, close it up and sometimes inject steam. Presto--crappy board. Softops are made about the same way, bottom is usually glasses, top is an EVA=type material, add foam base, heat and ship to Costco to sell for $114.

Wavestorm boards are becoming a thing. People surf them in all kinds of intense places. The lifeguards at Kanaha have some. If you break it, you bring it back to Costco--no questions asked. Well, maybe something like "isn't this the eighth board you've broken??"

JOB rode one into Peahi last week. Turned it into four pieces. I don't think it was a wavestorm though.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Subber

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 06:21:05 PM »
Hey!

We're lucky to have both customs and popouts
and all in between....the best of worlds.
 ;D
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375”x28.5”x17.25”x 4.25,” 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

pdxmike

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2014, 06:28:29 PM »
I happen to be a popout myself.

getsupngo

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2014, 07:00:56 PM »
Somewhere along the way there became a favorite flavor on how the rubber meets the road.
   

SUPcheat

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Re: New to the Zone.
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2014, 08:05:13 PM »
I'm a kook on an inflatable pop out. I don't know if I like "pop" and "inflatable" in the same term.

It's good enough for the time being and learning skill level. When I am firm upper grom to lower journeyman status, I might get a hard board, Hammers sound good.
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

 


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