Author Topic: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO  (Read 36590 times)

robon

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2014, 04:13:29 PM »
Whether 28 or 29,5 wide, it is a excellent all round shape.
If you really want some radical difference in characteristics, you should consider the x 14 pro or the 14V2 production model, depending on area of use of course.

I get what you're saying for sure. I'm interested in the biggest, fattest version of the X-14 and was a bit confused when a dealer told me there isn't a difference in widths between the 2013 and 2014 stock X-14. Not a big deal. Looks like a great shape regardless.

supLaz

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2014, 03:28:39 AM »
I've been trying to explain to everyone there are major problems with what the catalog says and the actual product.  It's not an SIC thing, it's fricken Braly Joy and Flow Sports marketing BS

everything was so much more simple, cut and dry before Flow Sports came into the scene with global marketing, a bunch of groupies if you ask me. All the boys in Hawaii have been using SIC products for years, when everything was Hawaii built customs.

It is perhaps though a SIC thing, according Flow Sports have all TW / TWC models a Molded Construction and all GC / SCC / DCC models a CNC Construction.
This means to me that the expensive models are built with a more expensive and more accurate manufacturing process than the cheaper ones.

This fact can of course paired with possible manufacturing tolerances of some TWC models in the Cobra factory.
I don’t know what 2013 was happened, but if you have just in a (maybe unexpected) increasing production phase a not sufficient quality- and/or process- control, you can get some tolerance problems in measurement and weight.

But do not forget, this is just my opinion, no more.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 03:37:44 AM by supLaz »
Laz

jd

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2014, 07:36:02 PM »
Area 10,

Do me a favour and run a tape across your X-14 and let us know what it reads.

I was talking to a shop owner on the phone a few days ago and he told me the 2013 X-14 isn't 29.5" wide, and it's actually the same width as the 2014 at 28 and change. The dude told me he had Raaphorst on the phone and asked what the deal is with the listed width being so far off for the 2013 and the response was that it's not 29.5" and it's actually 28". I was told that the rails had a bit of volume taken out but the width is essentially the same and they barely changed the mould for the X-14 from last year to this year. I'm not going to say who the dealer was on the web but he swore to me the 2013 models definitely aren't 29.5" wide. I'd be interested to know what the actual width really is.

I've got a 2013 X-14.  It is definitely not 28 or 28.5.  My unscientific measurement gave something around 29 or 29.5.  Hard to measure with the big bulbous rails.  I came from having an older 17' Naish Glide that was 26+ wide and was surprised that the Glide was a quite a bit more stable.  Still a fairly stable board for me at 225-230lbs. 

robon

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2014, 09:54:01 PM »
Area 10,

Do me a favour and run a tape across your X-14 and let us know what it reads.

I was talking to a shop owner on the phone a few days ago and he told me the 2013 X-14 isn't 29.5" wide, and it's actually the same width as the 2014 at 28 and change. The dude told me he had Raaphorst on the phone and asked what the deal is with the listed width being so far off for the 2013 and the response was that it's not 29.5" and it's actually 28". I was told that the rails had a bit of volume taken out but the width is essentially the same and they barely changed the mould for the X-14 from last year to this year. I'm not going to say who the dealer was on the web but he swore to me the 2013 models definitely aren't 29.5" wide. I'd be interested to know what the actual width really is.

I've got a 2013 X-14.  It is definitely not 28 or 28.5.  My unscientific measurement gave something around 29 or 29.5.  Hard to measure with the big bulbous rails.  I came from having an older 17' Naish Glide that was 26+ wide and was surprised that the Glide was a quite a bit more stable.  Still a fairly stable board for me at 225-230lbs.

So now we have one owner who measured  28.78" at the widest point on his 2013 X-14 and another who has 29 or 29.5"?  Interesting. You shouldn't have 29 or 29.5 as a measurement. It's either or.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:59:54 PM by robon »

Area 10

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2014, 05:27:06 AM »
Area 10,

Do me a favour and run a tape across your X-14 and let us know what it reads.

I was talking to a shop owner on the phone a few days ago and he told me the 2013 X-14 isn't 29.5" wide, and it's actually the same width as the 2014 at 28 and change. The dude told me he had Raaphorst on the phone and asked what the deal is with the listed width being so far off for the 2013 and the response was that it's not 29.5" and it's actually 28". I was told that the rails had a bit of volume taken out but the width is essentially the same and they barely changed the mould for the X-14 from last year to this year. I'm not going to say who the dealer was on the web but he swore to me the 2013 models definitely aren't 29.5" wide. I'd be interested to know what the actual width really is.

I've got a 2013 X-14.  It is definitely not 28 or 28.5.  My unscientific measurement gave something around 29 or 29.5.  Hard to measure with the big bulbous rails.  I came from having an older 17' Naish Glide that was 26+ wide and was surprised that the Glide was a quite a bit more stable.  Still a fairly stable board for me at 225-230lbs.

So now we have one owner who measured  28.78" at the widest point on his 2013 X-14 and another who has 29 or 29.5"?  Interesting. You shouldn't have 29 or 29.5 as a measurement. It's either or.

Well it's quite hard to measure a board accurately unless you have the appropriate calipers and most people don't. I don't either. But I've measured my 2013 X14 SCC and it is, as far as my amateur equipment will allow me to tell,  28 6/8ths inch wide (or it was 72.9 cms as measured if you prefer). The wide point seems to be maybe very slightly ahead of the centre of the handle, and it is easy to come up with 28.5" if you measure at a slightly different point.

There is absolutely no way it is 29.5" wide. In fact there is no way that it is even 29" wide.

This is astonishing. I was actually considering updating my board to the 2014 model, which was supposed to be an inch narrower. And now I actually find that if I had bought the 2014 model it would have been virtually the same board! So thanks guys, that could have been a very costly mistake.

And this answers the Q of why the X14 doesn't feel as stable as you'd expect for a 29.5" board. It isn't 29.5" wide...

Maybe the different constructions are different widths as mentioned above. I have a 2013 Bullet 14 in SCC and demoed the same board in the cheaper TWC construction. The cheaper board felt noticeably slower to get on a bump. Maybe it wasn't just a matter of the weight difference.

Flow Sports really need to get their act together in terms of the catalogs and information they give out for SIC hardware. It is so littered with mistakes that it is impossible to make an informed purchasing decision on the basis of it. I pity the dealers, because it is they who will be facing the consequences of Flow's laziness, and unknowingly misleading customers. I doubt if most people will distinguish between the name written on the board (Raaphorst) and the source of this problem (Flow Sports), so if I were Mark I wouldn't be too impressed either. Surely it isn't that hard to know the names and models of the equipment you are selling, and what their physical measurements are?

It is such a shame that there is this confusion because the design of the SIC board range is, IMO, absolutely outstanding.

So, just to clear up any doubt, I'll say it again: I have a standard production 2013 X14 in SCC construction and it is 28 6/8th inches wide (or as near as dammit). I bought it having been told it was 29.5" wide and it isn't. As it happens, I am totally cool with the width as it is, and I find it a stable board, even compared with other raceboards around 28.5" wide. But if I had found the board too tippy I'd be pretty darned angry right now about having been sold something that was not as described. It is not the retailer's fault that he gave me wrong information. He had been given false information by Flow Sports. One inch difference isn't a manufacturing tolerance issue, it a marketing balls-up.

No wonder my custom board bag that I ordered for a 29.5" wide board is baggy...

Rideordie

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2014, 05:45:54 AM »
The measurement thing is interesting.   In late April, I traded my 14 Javelin in on a very lightly used X 14 SCC.  I was told it was a 2014 model purchased in November 2014.  I was very careful to measure the board before puchase, beacuse I wanted to make sure I was now buying the prior year model, which I believe was 29 or 20.5.  My board measured out at exactly 28 inches and I am Very happy with the build quality except I have a bubble under my pad, which I am going to have to deal with.  Not a real big deal, but should not happen on a bard this new.  The ride of this board is incredibly stable.  Side wind and chop are are handled with complete ease.  I do notice that head on chop does slow the board a bit more than the Javelin, but side wind and confused chop on the Jav was a complete nightmare!!  I wil take that trade off any day!!  Downwind, the X14 picks up bumps really easily, but there is zero front rocker, so you must step back a bit to keep from burying the nose.  If you do bury the nose, it does not boof, but slices right through the water nicely and the water runs right off the back very quickly.  Picks up bumps easliy and accelerates.  Truly flat water is where this board sings!!  I think somehow less of the width of the board is truly engaged when riding flat and thus there is less resistance.  I was able to get it up to 6.8 mph in a a couple of sprints, which is much faster than I could accomplish on my Jav.  Personal best so far on a longer run was average 5.0 mph over about six miles, but water was not completely flat and there was some wind.  That was equal or better than my best Javelin day when it was completely flat.  You can walk all over this board with ease.  Comfy smooth 3/4 pad.  I could not even look behind me on the Jav for fear of falling off.  This X14 is confidence inspiring, like you could do anything with it.  I did add a Ninja fin, as I thought the stock fin lacked in tracking.  Now tracks awesome.  If I had to make any changes to the board, I would say go about an inch more narrow and give it just a bit of nose rocker and change the fin.  I have never ridden a Bullet, but I bet it is a great board that has some of thos characteristics.  I am Totally Sold on the shaping skills of Mark Raaphorst.  The subtlety of the rails on this board amazes me and I have spent a lot of time just looking at them to understand how this thing handles rough water and turns so well, yet is still fast when really flat.  I have to wonder about the X14 Pro at 26 wide.  Could it be stable enough and be even faster?  I have heard from some that it is tippy, which is exacatly why I was not a Javelin fan.                                 
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

Rideordie

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2014, 05:51:02 AM »
Meant to say measures out at exactly 28.5 inches, but I did not use any special tool just a tape measure and line of sight. 
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

supLaz

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2014, 06:18:02 AM »
I suspect there is NOT ONE Cobra made  X14 with 29,5" wide, I think I know the cause ,
but let's wait and see what the measurements saying.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:45:41 AM by supLaz »
Laz

supLaz

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2014, 07:31:42 AM »
" One inch difference isn't a manufacturing tolerance issue, it a marketing balls-up. "

Area 10

I’ll bet , the One inch difference is a manufacturing issue and the marketing department has to deal with it.
The result of that  is obviously.
But no matter, the product is great, I'm glad to have one. ;)
Laz

Area 10

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2014, 07:46:13 AM »
" One inch difference isn't a manufacturing tolerance issue, it a marketing balls-up. "

Area 10

I’ll bet , the One inch difference is a manufacturing issue and the marketing department has to deal with it.
The result of that  is obviously.
But no matter, the product is great, I'm glad to have one. ;)
If Cobra made the boards 28.5" wide when they'd been asked to make them 29.5" wide, you had better change your marketing material pretty quick to say that it is 28.5", not continue to say it is 29.5.

I would have thought that given the other load of errors in the 2013-4 Flow Sports SIC marketing material that a proofing error by them is much more likely than it is that Cobra built a board 1" narrower than they were supposed to.

And yes, the X14 is a REALLY great board, whatever its width.

raf

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2014, 08:00:24 AM »
I just took our 2014 x-14 SCC off the rack and measured it.  Its about 28.75" wide without using any advanced measuring technique.  All SIC boards should have the length and width written on the bottom.  This one says 28.5" inches, which is very close to what I measured.  Plus or minus 1/4 inch is understandable, as I suspect Cobra is on the metric system and they need to convert everything over.  28.75" = 73 centimeters which is a nice whole number.  28.5 is a nicer number than 28.75 from a marketing standpoint, as it appeals to those looking for a 29" and 28" board.  Hence the 1/4" discrepancy? 

Area 10

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2014, 08:42:16 AM »
I just took our 2014 x-14 SCC off the rack and measured it.  Its about 28.75" wide without using any advanced measuring technique.  All SIC boards should have the length and width written on the bottom.  This one says 28.5" inches, which is very close to what I measured.  Plus or minus 1/4 inch is understandable, as I suspect Cobra is on the metric system and they need to convert everything over.  28.75" = 73 centimeters which is a nice whole number.  28.5 is a nicer number than 28.75 from a marketing standpoint, as it appeals to those looking for a 29" and 28" board.  Hence the 1/4" discrepancy?
OK, so your 2014 model is exactly the same width as my 2013 one. I have two 2013 SIC boards (X14 and Bullet 14 V1) and neither of them have dimensions written on them.

I think you could well be right about marketing just rounding it down to the nearest half inch. But then maybe someone working on the advertising typed 29 instead of 28...or got the cms to inches conversion wrong...

This matter goes beyond just the X14 though. There's a current issue for me in knowing if the Bullet V2 is or is not the same width as the Bullet V1. In the 2014 catalog it says that the V2 is narrower, but the stats that are quoted show the two boards the same width. Check out what is says about the Bullet V2 on page 5 (26.0" wide), and then look at the stats on page 11 (says 27.25" wide). Which is true? There is a whopping 1.25" difference between the widths quoted on the two different pages of the same catalog. That is big enough to make a difference to some people's purchasing decisions.

http://issuu.com/siccatalog/docs/2014_sic_catalog

So, has anyone got a Bullet 14 V2 sitting on their shelf that they'd like to measure for us, so we can tell Flow Sports what their brochure should actually say?

robon

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2014, 08:53:49 AM »
Thanks to those who measured their boards.

I guess my primary concern now is the volume of the X-14. I wanted a jump up in volume to the 290 L+ mark.  Now, do you guys think the listed Volume is close at 295.5L for the 2013? The literature is all over the map for the 2014 volume of the X-14 X 28.5". 295.5 all the way to 280. That's pretty substantial. The SIC catalogue reads 280 L. I don't know if the mould was retooled for 2014 at all to take some volume out, or if the 2013 stats were just way off?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 08:58:47 AM by robon »

doctor_who

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2014, 09:45:39 AM »
The measurement thing is interesting.   In late April, I traded my 14 Javelin in on a very lightly used X 14 SCC.  I was told it was a 2014 model purchased in November 2014.  I was very careful to measure the board before puchase, beacuse I wanted to make sure I was now buying the prior year model, which I believe was 29 or 20.5.  My board measured out at exactly 28 inches and I am Very happy with the build quality except I have a bubble under my pad, which I am going to have to deal with.  Not a real big deal, but should not happen on a bard this new.  The ride of this board is incredibly stable.  Side wind and chop are are handled with complete ease.  I do notice that head on chop does slow the board a bit more than the Javelin, but side wind and confused chop on the Jav was a complete nightmare!!  I wil take that trade off any day!!  Downwind, the X14 picks up bumps really easily, but there is zero front rocker, so you must step back a bit to keep from burying the nose.  If you do bury the nose, it does not boof, but slices right through the water nicely and the water runs right off the back very quickly.  Picks up bumps easliy and accelerates.  Truly flat water is where this board sings!!  I think somehow less of the width of the board is truly engaged when riding flat and thus there is less resistance.  I was able to get it up to 6.8 mph in a a couple of sprints, which is much faster than I could accomplish on my Jav.  Personal best so far on a longer run was average 5.0 mph over about six miles, but water was not completely flat and there was some wind.  That was equal or better than my best Javelin day when it was completely flat.  You can walk all over this board with ease.  Comfy smooth 3/4 pad.  I could not even look behind me on the Jav for fear of falling off.  This X14 is confidence inspiring, like you could do anything with it.  I did add a Ninja fin, as I thought the stock fin lacked in tracking.  Now tracks awesome.  If I had to make any changes to the board, I would say go about an inch more narrow and give it just a bit of nose rocker and change the fin.  I have never ridden a Bullet, but I bet it is a great board that has some of thos characteristics.  I am Totally Sold on the shaping skills of Mark Raaphorst.  The subtlety of the rails on this board amazes me and I have spent a lot of time just looking at them to understand how this thing handles rough water and turns so well, yet is still fast when really flat.  I have to wonder about the X14 Pro at 26 wide.  Could it be stable enough and be even faster?  I have heard from some that it is tippy, which is exacatly why I was not a Javelin fan.                                 


Thanks Rideordie for the review. One more question: If you have to buy again a X14...would you go with the PRO edition or not ?
Also will it be feasible to get some photos of X14 specially at the tail and its bottom?
Thanks. 
2012 Javelin GX 14'
2012 Laird Bark 12'6"

supuk

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Re: SIC X 14 and x 14 PRO
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2014, 10:03:13 AM »
i dont think they are the only one playing with numbers for marketing reasons, i recently measured a big brand named production board pretty accurately and it had 12'6 x 24.75 written on the board however it measured 25"1/4!

Unfortunatly I can easily believe companies are doing this to try and do this to make people think boards are more stable than they are for there size and to make people think they are on smaller boards but really it is all just false advertising,if the board was mine i would have been pretty annoyed!

 With cnc machines these days board should be coming out to within a max of  +/- 1/8" if glassed by hand and i would hope more like +/- 0.025 or even less if they are out of a mould like most of production boards so to be a hole 3/4" out seams to much for any sort of manufacturing issue, i mean i have built houses that have tighter tolerances that that!

 


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