lamination question

[55NSup]

30 hours later everything looks pretty good. There are some spots the glass seems dry om rails but nothing really bad. Will have big over lap On rails anyway giving 2x 200 cf + 2x 155 glass on rails.

 Will let it cure over Christmas and do the deck Friday

[Dwight (DW)]

I tried to watch the video frame by frame.

A few tips for next time.

1) Cover the wet out table with "black" plastic sheet. When wetting out the fiberglass, the black plastic makes the dry spots and wet spots show 1000% better.

2) When unrolling the wet cloth on the board, set the roll right on the board. Unroll and squeegee down as you unroll. It will go down absolutely prefect.

[55NSup]

Where do you get black plastic sheet?

[Dwight (DW)]

Where do you get black plastic sheet?

The same place you buy clear. It's sold everywhere here. Home Depot, Walmart, etc.

[TallDude]

55NSup, I like the shape of that board. Looks very similar to my unlimited. Whats the dims?

DW, I'm looking to get a v-bagging setup. What kind of pump do you have?

[getsupngo]

DW, I'm looking to get a v-bagging setup. What kind of pump do you have?

I'm not DW but I've been using the same Gast oil-less rotary vane pump for the last 20 years or so. Pulls all the air out of the bag plenty fast and I've left it running full bore all night very often on the XPS core stuff that I like and never a problem. EPS cores can only handle about a third of the pressure so I just keep tabs on the pressure whenever that's in the bag.

They seem much more pricier now than when I got mine.
 

[55NSup]

Ohh. Im in Sweden. Home depot hasn't gonr international.

Have to search around.

Talldude. Its 16-5 (not much bigger will fit in garage) x26 x 9 in tail. I designed it in Shape 3D, exported 2D files for templates and had a friend mill them out on a cnc router he has in his furniture making company.
Hot wired it, hand shaped.
I am worried it has too little nose rocker. But I paddle 95% flat water and do selfpropelled up winders then downwind in moderate winds. So it might be right.
Kinda like old school downhill MTB...ride up, ride down.

Already thinking of next shape and will most likely v-bag it.

[Dwight (DW)]

DW, I'm looking to get a v-bagging setup. What kind of pump do you have?

Gast oil-less

Joe woodworkers kit.

[Dwight (DW)]

BTW, avoid the oil type pumps.

[TallDude]

55NSup,
At 16'5, for mostly flat water, 2 1/2" to 3" nose rocker and 1 1/2" to 2" on the tail works well. That is about where my 18' unlimited is. Some of the Barks and Ohana unlimiteds will go 3 1/2" to 4" in the nose and 3" in the tail, but those are open ocean, non-downwinding designs. I think yours will be fast and relatively stable for an unlimited. Keep us posted.

[55NSup]

Laminated deck friday night. Set up wetout table like dw said, which worked easier.
I still had to add 400g epoxy to glass once it was on carbon otherwise it would be dry.
Had trouble getting glass and carbon down into deck recess, so added sandbag to hold it down.

There was a lot of epoxy left on the wetout table from the glass wetout..like it just squeezed thru. Glass seemed to take much more epoxy than the carbon.

Perhaps I have the cf way too dry, its hard to tell. It was not dripping, but more like damp with epoxy.  the eps may be then sucking the Epoxy out of the cf then the cf sucking up epoxy fron glass. Im putting down 750 g epoxy onto 1kg of CF weave. Some of that epoxy is left On the wetout table.

This time I brushed epoxy onto the blanks rails before cf and this made cf stick to rail easier.

My learning from this is:
Seal blank with epoxy and baloons to reduce resin absorption into eps.( I should do a side by side test in vbag comparing sealing methods)
Wetout table set up in layers with plastic between layers.
Use moderate pressure v-bag with non perforated plastic sheet over laminate before bagging. ( will test on this board  this with my small pump to see ifit is sufficient) - im sure I will have much more compact laminate and can handle more radical deck cutout.

[SUPflorida]

How about slowing down the time laps to half way between normal speed an the hyper speed you have on the link...that possible?

[Dwight (DW)]

Your lam looks good. You can get the cloth down tight and clean coming off the roller with practice. Use the squeegee right up near the roller and squeegee as it unrolls.

Carbon is tricky to wet out. To me, it's like wetting carpet. It takes lots of epoxy, then once wet, you can squeegee tons of excess out of it. I leave my greatest amount of wasted epoxy behind on the table when doing carbon

With glass, it becomes easy to keep reducing the epoxy amount until you nail it. Leaving very little waste behind on the table.

Laps stick better with epoxy micro balloon sealed blanks versus spackle sealed blanks. Thats probably a good indicator that spackle sealing isn't as good as epoxy sealing for resisting delam.

[peterwSUPr]

In my days of building windsurfers (epoxy sandwich construction), I would wet out the glass on a sheet of plastic, put it on the board, then put on a very thin sheet of plastic and then breather material and vacuum bag.  The thin plastic can be smoothed out by hand and excess resin which gets squeezed by the vacuum then helps to fill the weave.  I found vacuum bagging with peel ply left the board too dry and with no ding resistance. 

If you have to add resin to your saturated glass after you roll it onto the board, then the whole process of wetting it out on a table does not achieve anything.  I'm not saying that wetting out on a table is not a good idea, but it seems to me that you've found that there is some critical amount of resin needed even with this method for it to be effective.

I should also add that when  I have pre-wet glass I do not have a full length table.   Wet out 1 or 1.5 metres, roll up, slide fabric onto wetting surface and repeat. (disclaimer - I have not done this on a big SUP before though)  I do find that rolling the cloth after wetting it out helps to distribute resin and finish  wetting out any dry spots.

Looks like a nice board!
Peter

[55NSup]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for v-bag clarification. Your method is exactly what I was thinking. I have vbagged kiteboards with peelply,  perforated film and breather absorber and its hard to control epoxy amount, and tends to be dry. Agree your method is easiest way.

My guess is that with epoxy microbaloon seal, and  vbag I can  get away from extra wetout. Somethimg to do next year...
Time to finish this one.