downside to inflatables?

[mtmilam]

Here is the Valves from the Red Air and BOTE...Mistral is the Same......So, are these the H3 and if I wanted a extra adaptor, do I ask for a H3??





This is the ULI's

[spookini]

MtMilan, your portable compressor setup is pretty impressive!!  McGwyer would be drooling!  (And McGruber too  )

Just wanted to throw this info out there, so ppl know there are high pressure iSUP HANDpumps available which make manually inflating up to higher psi's pretty feasible...

I have the Red Air 9'2" model, which ships w/ their high-pressure handpump.  (Actually it's SUPPOSED to ship w/ the hi-pressure pump... it actually shipped w/ their std pump.  They remedied the mixup quickly and sent me the HP pump free of charge.  So now I have both.)

Pictured below, the std pump is a 4" diameter, 17" height.  (This is the industry standard pump, from what I've seen.  (ULI's is different, I believe)).  The high-pressure pump is narrower/taller:  3" diameter, 21" height.  Also notice the gauges -- the std goes to 20psi; Red's HP gauge goes to 30 and clearly shows 15-25psi as the "green zone".   I had used the std pump only once, so tonite I dug it out to do an unscientific comparison to post on the 'Zone.  Here's how it went:

Std pump:  takes me < 3 minutes to get to 15 psi. One more minute of very uncomfortable pumping I can get to 20 psi, but cannot get beyond that.  (And I'm not willing to bust a capillary trying..  )

High pressure pump:  takes 3 minutes to get to 15 psi.  (The narrower pump puts out noticeably less volume per stroke, but I found myself pumping faster, so the elapsed time was abt the same).  Another 1m20sec gets me to 20psi - with no discomfort.  An add'l. 1m30sec to arrive at 25psi.  The end of that is slightly uncomfortable, but never as uncomfortable as with the low pressure pump.  (For example, if I brace the pump cylinder against my knee, I'm still able to compress the pump without too much difficulty. Whereas with the low pressure pump you really need to herniate yourself those last few strokes.  )

Anyhoo, just wanted to share the results for anyone reading this thread.  Obviously the 9'2" board is going to have lower volume and shorter inflation times vs. larger models like the 12'6", etc.  For what it's worth, on the Red website, the HP pump is recommended as an "add-on" to get the 12'6" board up to max PSI.  Red is not the only folks selling these 'hi-pressure' style pumps -- this kiting pump looks exactly the same:  http://thekitebuddy.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=208

the H3 valve is more resistant to being blown out by sudden deflation of the board from high pressure.  Just let out the air slowly at first when deflating..

Last picture shows what Argosi is referring to.  Yep, blowing out from 25psi with a BIG push of the plunger sometimes results in this.  An easy fix, you just have to re-seat the O-ring.  Deflating a more gently prevents this.  Patience is a virtue I guess.  

[airSUP]

The pumps are made by Bravo, every brand puts their own sticker on it,  most brands now ship with the thinner shaft pumps.

[SteamboatBORN]

The Ultra High Pressure Bravo Pump will become the standard till someone comes up with an even better one. Cheaper then a ULI and Wonder pumps too.

How are Reds made to allow them to go up to 25 psi? More drop stitch per inch or different PVC?

[Argosi]

The Ultra High Pressure Bravo Pump will become the standard till someone comes up with an even better one. Cheaper then a ULI and Wonder pumps too.

How are Reds made to allow them to go up to 25 psi? More drop stitch per inch or different PVC?

The Red boards have a denser pattern of drop stitch fibers than other inflatables. If you look carefully at the surface of an inflatable board, you can see the drop stitch pattern. For most boards (Starboard, Naish, Mistral, etc.), you'll see a linear pattern of rows. For the Red, you'll see a denser, non-linear pattern. The Reds may also use a double skin rather than single skin. This makes the boards heavier but more durable and also able to take higher pressures.

[paddlestandingup]

I think Red boards average about 10 threads per square inch.  The rails are 4 layers of pvc, the deck and bottom are 2 layers thick.  I'm not sure how this compares to other brands.  I think they also increased the spec on the valve and this should help prevent blow-outs.  Fixing a gasket blow out is easy IF you have the tool handy!  NRS carries a nice aluminum Halkey Robert valve wrench.  Red really stepped up this year with a lot of refinements and improvements to their entire range.

[SteamboatBORN]

More stitches gives it that golf ball dimple look right? What are the Reds weighing in at? My Hala has double layers sides, top and bottom and its a little over 26 lbs.

[SUPnICE]

If going strictly manual, what about the K-Pump 20 or 220? Does anyone have experience with either of these pumps? I've been thinking about replacing the pump that came with my Hobie 12'6. Although the Hobie is only  rated to 10psi (yellow zone is 10 - 15psi), I definitely would like to be able to pump it up quicker with less effort.

Although the K-Pump is definitely pricey, I do like the idea of the two stage/one pump concept and made in U.S.A tag.

As for the initial thread topic - as a beginner, I have been enjoying the iSUP. Other than having to learn the hard way about how the valve works (yep, made the mistake of trying to pump it up with the valve in the open position. Amazing how much nicer it is pumping up the board once instead of 2 or 3 times - ha!), I've really enjoyed throwing it in the trunk and trekking to someplace after work. And it is nice to be able to throw the board in a corner as I don't have a lot of room. About the only downside I've found is trying to paddle against the flow. Guess I just need to build up the paddling muscles.

[spookini]

SUPn,

The K-Pumps look nice (very compact/portable), but I see the downside being there's no integrated pressure gauge, so to check your board pressure requires an add'l. step, and also item to purchase -- the gauges they sell are $38.

Personally I think you'd be happy w/ a HP sup pump like the one linked above.  Yes it's made it China.., but "designed" in Italy.  Yeah right!! 

[Argosi]

The K-pumps can be used to get to high pressures. The problem is that you have to hold the pump against the valve on the board with one hand so you only have the other hand free for pumping. I've tried holding the pump between my knees while simultaneously pushing down with them. This allows me to use both hands - but the pump "handle" is really small - meant for one hand. It's very awkward.

K-pump really should come up with a regular pump design. Their pumps are very well made and the 2-stage design is a great idea.

I'd suggest sticking with the Red HP pump or other high pressure pump if you're going to stay with a manual pump.

[suphunter]

Trying to figure out what first board to get and all this time I was thinking hard board the only real way to go. Then I saw steamrollers post in this thread, and then I found this   ... awesome!


Anyway, hoping to also get some advice. Live in upstate new york (not my fault). So most of the time will be lake stuff and trying to catch wakes off boats as they leave the docks and launches. Want to take the dog some times (small dog). But also would like to have a board to bring to jersey 4 or 5 times during the summer and surf small stuff - sea isle city type stuff. My biggest concern has been transporting a 12' board on top of my 4 door car for 7 hours to jersey. Should I seriously consider inflatable? Can I bring the dog? Will it really compare to my experience on the hard boards I've been renting locally?

[spookini]

Suphunter, yep I too used to think "why the hell would anyone buy an inflatable??", but I'm a convert now.  Boards like ULI, Red, or other makes that can handle hi-pressure.., they're not blow-up rafts anymore.  The performance is really pretty good.  Especially if you're transporting the board alot, or monkeying around behind boats, or taking the dog for a ride... they're a decent choice.  They'll probably never be a surf connoisseur's 1st board of choice -- fair enough.

I think a good inflatable might compare FAVORABLY to the boards you've been renting though .... most rental boards are clunkers anyways!

[SUPnICE]

Re: K-Pump:

SUPn,

 Yes it's made it China.., but "designed" in Italy.

Well...I like pasta. I could rationalize that! 

Spookini and Arogsi - thanks for the feedback. Given the consensus on the ability of  the Red Paddle style of pump, I believe the only responsible option is to buy a Red Paddle board - for the pump of course!

[jwongbc]

Here's my attempt at mimicking the gizmo adapter. Using 1 Bravo HR adapter fitted to my board and got a couple of tire valves from a tire shop. I haven't tried it yet but looks like it should work out. Valve is currently being held in by press fit.

[JerseySUP]

I purchased an electric pump from ULI (the bravo pump) but quickly realized that it was not compatible with my Starboard Astro. I was able to take a spare starboard pump and swap out the valve adapter on the bravo pump. Works like a charm now: