Gun Control starts at home

[Tom]

As PB said, outlaw cars too, lots more killed by those than guns.

There are a lot of car laws that help to reduce deaths, why not do the same with guns.

Laws are empty wind unless they are enforced. There are plenty of laws concerning weapons as well--not much enforcement. New York state has the strictest gun laws in the nation and NYC is even stricter. Anyone ready to move there to be safe from gun violence?

My position, not that anyone cares, is that if you wish to curb violence you need to address it at it roots. Owning a gun is not the root. Do you fix drunk driving by taking away the cars from everyone who has never driven drunk?

How about "use a gun to commit any crime, and you go straight to the organ banks"? I'm good with that. I bet the NRA would be too.

First, the NRA has made it very difficult to enforce the laws that are in effect today. Second, yes its hard to buy a gun 'legally' in New York, but easy to buy one elsewhere and bring it to New York.

Expanding on your drunk driving statement. There have been very substantial reductions in deaths caused by drunk driving, one by taking away licences of those caught driving drunk, but also by making those responsible for drunk driving. A bar, a bartender, or anyone can be held responsible for letting a person get drunk, drive a car, and kill someone. But I gun dealer can sell assault weapons to anyone, even if he knows they are crazy and are going to go out and shoot someone.

How about, sell a gun to a crazy  person that shoots up a school and  you go straight to the organ banks.

[Bean]

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[TN_SUP]

It is not in the NRA/gun makers interest to reduce crime, that would hurt sales. Which is the real reason why they are against background checks - its about money. I wish the 2nd amendment would be thrown out. Guns are now toys, not tools, in our  urbanized America.

[NoSaltSuper]

Why do people have to fixate on guns, as if there are no other types of murder weapons?

Well, because:

Guns make it quicker/easier to kill.

Um, it looks like you answered your own question . . .

No, that's not "the" answer to my question, that's just one point. Guns are not the leading cause of deaths in this country, so why fixate on them? That's what makes no sense to me.

People have this odd fantasy that oh, if we just outlaw guns, or greatly restrict them, everything will be lovely, kumbaya. I don't recall all the places/facts, but I do seem to recall tens of thousands of murders, by machete wielding tribes in Africa not too long ago.

Sure, guns may make it easier but as I said, without guns people will still kill each other, it just gets more personal without a gun.

As PB said, outlaw cars too, lots more killed by those than guns.

No, that's not "the" answer to my question, that's just one point. Guns are not the leading cause of deaths in this country, so why fixate on them? That's what makes no sense to me.

Are you saying that there only should be laws about the leading cause of deaths? Only pass sensible gun laws when they become the number one killer???

People have this odd fantasy that oh, if we just outlaw guns, or greatly restrict them, everything will be lovely, kumbaya. I don't recall all the places/facts, but I do seem to recall tens of thousands of murders, by machete wielding tribes in Africa not too long ago.

No, people looking at reasonable gun laws aren't having odd fantasies and think everything will be lovely. They are just saying that they are tired of mass killings at schools, movies, and shopping malls by assault rifles with high capacity magazines.

Sure, guns may make it easier but as I said, without guns people will still kill each other, it just gets more personal without a gun.

Yes, there are many ways to kill people, but a crazy person with automatic rifles is very hard to stop.

As PB said, outlaw cars too, lots more killed by those than guns.

There are a lot of car laws that help to reduce deaths, why not do the same with guns.

Uggh, I keep getting sucked into this, oh well.

Yes, the mass killings are terrible, they're dramatic and they ruin lives. They also are a very minute amount of the murders that occur in the country. All the other forms of murder dwarf mass killings.  Why not worry about the bigger numbers?

Btw, none of the weapons used in those atrocities were "automatic", they were semi-automatic.

We already have TONS of gun laws, they aren't enforced at the federal level. Enforce the laws we already have, lock offenders up for years at the first offense. I live near Chicago, we had the toughest gun laws in the country and the #1 murder rate. Maybe criminals don't care about gun laws, eh? Kind of like the laws against illegal drugs.

Without enforcement, gun laws are meaningless.

[Fark]

OMG!!!

Yeah, let's punish the gun dealers because they know what someone is going to do when they walk out the door.  While we're at it, why don't we punish auto dealers when someone drives drunk and ends up killing somebody.  Punish McDonald's for killing people.  Punish tobacco companies because people died from smoking.  I'd love to ban natural disasters.  Think of all the lives that would save.

[TN_SUP]

Yep, can't believe this horse isn't dead yet. A law without funding for its enforcement is meaningless.

[PonoBill]

First, the NRA has made it very difficult to enforce the laws that are in effect today. Second, yes its hard to buy a gun 'legally' in New York, but easy to buy one elsewhere and bring it to New York.

Expanding on your drunk driving statement. There have been very substantial reductions in deaths caused by drunk driving, one by taking away licences of those caught driving drunk, but also by making those responsible for drunk driving. A bar, a bartender, or anyone can be held responsible for letting a person get drunk, drive a car, and kill someone. But I gun dealer can sell assault weapons to anyone, even if he knows they are crazy and are going to go out and shoot someone.

How about, sell a gun to a crazy  person that shoots up a school and  you go straight to the organ banks.

There's that camel, I was wondering where it went. Too easy to politicize and you've disconnected responsibility from the act itself. If a bartender lets someone leave a bar drunk and they kill someone they are not subject to a murder trial, just fines.

There are LOTS of laws about who a gun dealer can sell to and who they can't. Enforcement is the issue. Most of those laws are actually regulation, and can be modified without some huge debate. They're a criteria for continuing to hold a sales license. If background checks needed to be deeper that tweak could be made at a regulatory level and would only get debated and fiddled with after the fact. The reality is that this is a political position that can be manipulated to garner votes. Given the current ability to tell each block of voters what they want to hear from you, it's gold.

[SEA]

What is the one common denominator in ALL mass shootings around the WORLD.  Every shooter was taking or had recently been on phsycotropic medicine .... Hmmmm  anyone looked up side effects of phsycotropic drugs.........


Why is it this fact is NEVER mentioned in mainstream media , and if casually mentioned , they never make a connection to it.  The media  can say they were mentally unstable but heaven forbid  they ever mention that Pharmaceutical drugs , specifically phsycotropic drugs have been the ONE common denominator in all mass shootings . Besides the obvious guns that is   I wonder who is one of thee biggest clients for advertiser space on tv ?? 

Look up the side effects of phsycotropic medicine ??  it's insane !!

[JeanG]

They say that states which outlawed texting and driving had a net increase in auto deaths relative to those states which did not institute such laws. The supposed theory is that when its legal to text and drive, the phone is held up, allowing the driver to more easily view the road whilst texting. In ban states the phones a of course hidden below the dash, preventing the driver from viewing the road with his peripheral vision when driving.

Unintended consequences and all that.

[SEA]

Here on Oahu texting is banned and I see this all day long .... holding phone down to the right of them and looking down at phone swerving,  then looking up . I got rear ended by a lady I passed  because she was swerving as I passed her by I looked down into her car and she was holding her phone down and looking at it, she had two kids in the back.  She later caught up to me and we were in the same lane , I stopped and she was texting .... KABOOM !!!

My Tundra won that contest.... her toyota ??  Not so much !!

[Admin]

For what its worth, Drunk Driving fatalities have dropped over 60% in the last 30 years with tougher laws and stricter enforcement.  

There are always meaningful steps that can be taken, and always those that will stand in the way with countless reasons for why nothing should be done.

[TN_SUP]

Blue tooth should be installed in every car as a safety device. I drive a three lane road everyday and people always pull out in the middle lane in front of me simply because they cant turn the wheel while talking on the phone.

[PonoBill]

An often quoted but faulty statistic that doesn't include the overall decline in fatality over the same timeframe or any other influential associated trends. FWIW the overall decline in traffic fatality (varying according to what you choose for the other axis) is 32%. Even comparing that apple to that orange is an error since drunk driving fatalities is a subset of those. Using handy years, drunk driving fatality in 1994 was 5.1 per 100,000 and in 2011 it was 3.2, a difference of 1.9 per 100K. Over the same period ALL fatalities per 100,000 declined from 15.6 to 10.6, a difference of 5 per 100K. That's raw data, fiddle with those stats as you will, I can get them to do almost anything but cook breakfast.

I DO believe stronger enforcement of drunk driving laws has made a real difference. Oops, there's that enforcement word again.  I also believe suing the crap out of sloppy bar owners made a difference. I think changes in business attitudes did too. My boss used to be toasted by 1:00 every day. The drinking, smoking and sexual harassment everyone cringes about on Mad Men was part of my life that I don't miss.

I'm all for meaningful steps, I'm just not up for getting whipsawed by politicians. After a life spent spinning bullshit I've developed an allergy. Like glassers get to epoxy.

[Celeste]

For what its worth, Drunk Driving fatalities have dropped over 60% in the last 30 years with tougher laws and stricter enforcement.  

There are always meaningful steps that can be taken, and always those that will stand in the way with countless reasons for why nothing should be done.

I believe the biggest single factor in that drop was raising the drinking age.  Restricting access to those most likely to offend.  How does that work with guns?

[melonhead]

What is the one common denominator in ALL mass shootings around the WORLD.  Every shooter was taking or had recently been on phsycotropic medicine

And your source for this uninformed BS is . . .?

Wait, let me guess - that bastion of integrity known as Alex Jones . . .