What "meaningful action" would suggest to prevent more mass shooting in the US?

[spookini]

... the whole reason behind the 2nd amendment was to allow people to protect themselves from a tyrannical government.

My 2 cents...that's a ridiculous argument.  If ever there was a 'citizens' revolt', enjoy your assault rifle while the govt. squashes you w/ a tank.  Better yet, you'll just get picked off by drone strikes.

Secondly, the "founding fathers" crowd always likes to babble on about the founders and their 'infinite wisdom'.  The constitution was written at a time of muzzle-loaders -- non-rifled guns that were inaccurate beyond 50yds.  If the founders could have foreseen today's modern weaponry, sure as shi-ite they would have put in some caveats to reflect that reality.

[Celeste]

In the the cases of Colorado and early reports about the Connecticut shooters and many more, there is prediagnosed mental illness,  As a society we do a very bad job of caring for our mentally ill, and that is not going to change till we as a society give up the stigma of it.  These situations are statistically rare, but as WW points out happen more often due to population growth.  Until we learn to do a better job of helping our ill citizens, no matter what we do, we are going to be facing this again.  In Australia,  there was a forced by back of hand guns and long guns.  Calibre, not layout was the criteria, no hand guns larger then .357, no long guns with a historically military cartage(this is from memory, if any of you Aussies can correct me please do).   Banning assault weapons sounds good till you actually try to define what they are.  Short barrels?  how about bullpups?  large magazines?  just carry more.  Pistol grip rifles? just go to thumb hole stocks.  No full auto, just google "slide fire". 

The tragic truth is it will happen again, with or without guns.  No guns, then homemade explosives, or nerve agents(anyone remember the Japanese subway attack?) 

[Fark]

In the the cases of Colorado and early reports about the Connecticut shooters and many more, there is prediagnosed mental illness,  As a society we do a very bad job of caring for our mentally ill, and that is not going to change till we as a society give up the stigma of it.  These situations are statistically rare, but as WW points out happen more often due to population growth.  Until we learn to do a better job of helping our ill citizens, no matter what we do, we are going to be facing this again.  In Australia,  there was a forced by back of hand guns and long guns.  Calibre, not layout was the criteria, no hand guns larger then .357, no long guns with a historically military cartage(this is from memory, if any of you Aussies can correct me please do).   Banning assault weapons sounds good till you actually try to define what they are.  Short barrels?  how about bullpups?  large magazines?  just carry more.  Pistol grip rifles? just go to thumb hole stocks.  No full auto, just google "slide fire". 

The tragic truth is it will happen again, with or without guns.  No guns, then homemade explosives, or nerve agents(anyone remember the Japanese subway attack?) 

^^^^^^^^

[supthecreek]

... the whole reason behind the 2nd amendment was to allow people to protect themselves from a tyrannical government.

My 2 cents...that's a ridiculous argument.  If ever there was a 'citizens' revolt', enjoy your assault rifle while the govt. squashes you w/ a tank.  Better yet, you'll just get picked off by drone strikes.

Secondly, the "founding fathers" crowd always likes to babble on about the founders and their 'infinite wisdom'.  The constitution was written at a time of muzzle-loaders -- non-rifled guns that were inaccurate beyond 50yds.  If the founders could have foreseen today's modern weaponry, sure as shi-ite they would have put in some caveats to reflect that reality.

Spookini, how naive you appear.
How did the tank and drone strikes work in Afganistan?

Some facts for you to contemplate

Afghanistan population = 30.5 million
Number of Tailban fighters in Afghanistan= 25 thousand

Neither the US or Russia could dislodge them, because a determined and armed population can not be easily defeated by tanks, drone strikes or years of traditional warfare.

Now… consider the numbers in the US
Armed American civilians – 80 million
47% of American adults own a gun.

No tanks, drones or foreign armies will ever successfully subdue the American people.
Someday, you may be glad of that fact.

And….if you think the Founding fathers were short sighted dolts, you should brush up on real history. Most of them were very well versed in Philosophy. They were all extremely well informed about 1,000s of years of Human behavior and Political history. They penned well thought out documents with human nature and human history as their guide…. Not specifics. Details change… human nature does not. The documents we hold dear are as relevant today, as day they were written.   

Please write us a new Constitution, one that will still be relevant in say… 5 years… please enlighten us with the infinite wisdom of the “modern” world….

[robon]

I didn't read every word on this thread, so this may have been noted before.
I heard on the news today that there are approximately 300 million firearms in the hands of private citizens here in the USA.
300 million, I'd say that there is too much toothpaste out of the tube already, can't put it back.

I also heard that he tried to buy his own firearm about a week ago, and was turned down.
Some things are working.
I also think that some things can't be helped, no matter what kind of fortresses we make out of our schools.

Lets not also forget the 80+ senior highschoolers that were hunted down and killed like animals, stuck on an island, during a school campout, in one of those scandanavian countries (can't remember which one).
Could have they been protected?

It's in the numbers, as our population doubles, you will have double the amount of this kind of shit happening.  
So is it happening more?  Yes, and it will continue to increase as our population grows.

But I also believe that this kind of stuff happened quite a bit in the past, that we never heard about for two reasons.  One, primitive media, and two, some bad shit was often covered up as to not bring down a bad reputation onto their communities.

Pragmatic, I know, but it's the only way that I can make sense of it.  

http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2012/07/23/gun-violence-is-a-u-s-public-health-problem/

[Celeste]

http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2012/07/23/gun-violence-is-a-u-s-public-health-problem/

There we go again with that nebulous term Assault Weapon.  Even BATF can not clearly define it.  How can you speak clearly about something you can not define? 

[lucabrasi]

http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2012/07/23/gun-violence-is-a-u-s-public-health-problem/

How can you draw a conclusion from that? That is manipulated gobbly gook.

I think this would paint a more accurate picture of what is going on in the world......but not that it is something to behold.  
http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf

[robon]

http://scienceblogs.com/thepumphandle/2012/07/23/gun-violence-is-a-u-s-public-health-problem/

How can you draw a conclusion from that? That is manipulated gobbly gook.

I think this would paint a more accurate picture of what is going on in the world......but not that it is something to behold.  
http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf

How would you draw a conclusion? The FACT that the United States having a much higher homicide rate with guns than most other advanced industrialized nations doesn't mean anything?

The FACT that gun shots wounds requiring hospital stays has gone up almost FIFTY PERCENT since 2001 in the States?

More gobbly gook I guess.

Done.

[PonoBill]

And….if you think the Founding fathers were short sighted dolts, you should brush up on real history. Most of them were very well versed in Philosophy. They were all extremely well informed about 1,000s of years of Human behavior and Political history. They penned well thought out documents with human nature and human history as their guide…. Not specifics. Details change… human nature does not. The documents we hold dear are as relevant today, as day they were written.   

Please write us a new Constitution, one that will still be relevant in say… 5 years… please enlighten us with the infinite wisdom of the “modern” world….

My thoughts exactly. Somehow, some people view those guys as primitives who cobbled together an experimental government that more or less works. Of course most people of that opinion have never read the constitution, the bill of rights, or very much American history.

A lot of people's opinions are ridiculous to spook. Must be nice to be so sure of yourself.

[lucabrasi]

How would you draw a conclusion? The FACT that the United States having a much higher homicide rate with guns than most other advanced industrialized nations doesn't mean anything?
The FACT that gun shots wounds requiring hospital stays has gone up almost FIFTY PERCENT since 2001 in the States?
More gobbly gook I guess.
Done.

I see that as being manipulated in that for the "comparison" they basically took somehting that would have most of Western Europe with Japan, Australia, and Canada......perhaps I missed a couple....to compare against the USA. Ok...the G12.....so what? Are those the countries most similar to the USA? Populations don't even stack up for the most part but that can be besides the point. Where is China? Russia? Mexico? It is slanted to show gun homicides comparing countries with strict gun control vs. the USA . There are exceptions in there, I know but it just isn't a fair picture on the state of violence or homicide. Gun violence only.....of course, we know we are not anywhere close to where we want to be at but to use that to compare us with the rest of the world.....I think is unfair and biased.

[robon]

How would you draw a conclusion? The FACT that the United States having a much higher homicide rate with guns than most other advanced industrialized nations doesn't mean anything?
The FACT that gun shots wounds requiring hospital stays has gone up almost FIFTY PERCENT since 2001 in the States?
More gobbly gook I guess.
Done.

I see that as being manipulated in that for the "comparison" they basically took somehting that would have most of Western Europe with Japan, Australia, and Canada......perhaps I missed a couple....to compare against the USA. Ok...the G12.....so what? Are those the countries most similar to the USA? Populations don't even stack up for the most part but that can be besides the point. Where is China? Russia? Mexico? It is slanted to show gun homicides comparing countries with strict gun control vs. the USA . There are exceptions in there, I know but it just isn't a fair picture on the state of violence or homicide. Gun violence only.....of course, we know we are not anywhere close to where we want to be at but to use that to compare us with the rest of the world.....I think is unfair and biased.

"Ok", the G12. Um, yeah...advanced, industrialized nations. China? Russia? Mexico? The United States is a lot more advanced in most aspects and more similar to the G-12 countries than those three countries, and yes, it is about gun violence.

[JT]

I appreciate the discourse.

My hope is if any "good" comes from the mass shooting in CT (as well as those elsewhere) it will entail reasonable citizens and politicians coming together to work together towards a meaningful solution.

My fear is that it will end up like trench warfare, with each side hunkering down in the relative safety of their own dug-in views, while innocents continue to get picked off wandering the no man's land of our current hodgepodge approach to the problem.

I also hope our local, state and national leaders screw up the courage to pull their heads out of their, uh, trenches, and expose themselves to politically unfriendly fire in an effort to re-examine this issue from all angles.

 

[lucabrasi]

"Ok", the G12. Um, yeah...advanced, industrialized nations. China? Russia? Mexico? The United States is a lot more advanced in most aspects and more similar to the G-12 countries than those three countries, and yes, it is about gun violence.

 I do get what you are saying, and did from the start I think but I just can't look at that without feeling it is manipulated to make us look bad.

It doesn't look at the overall homicide rates which in turn doesn't address the real issue at hand which in turn just makes it look like we are a country of gun toting idiots. We aren't.
 
Here is another list of overall homicide rates that may be easier to sort.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/13/homicide-rates-country-murder-data
That's what is scary. That is the real issue at hand. We are way more off the charts from the other G12 (countries with big banks is what I gather(we won't go there)) here and that is what we should be looking at and trying to solve. That's pretty black and white I think.

 

[Admin]

The guns used in Connecticut:

http://news.yahoo.com/rifle-conn-massacre-similar-dc-022700609.html

[Admin]

1.5 Million stolen guns between 2005-2010. Estimates that over 75% of gun crimes are committed with stolen guns.  I would hope that at the very least both sides would want to take steps to correct this.  Your gun, your crime.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm