Author Topic: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight  (Read 8965 times)

supnewguy

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Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« on: December 06, 2012, 10:56:32 AM »
Do you weight the side you are paddling on or the opposite side?  I have had very experienced racers give me conflicting advice.  On this forum there are conflicting posts as to which side to lean. 

Even when I am careful to keep the paddle vertical, and stack my shoulders, it doesn't matter whether I lean on the paddle side, the opposite side, or keep the board leveled, I can't seem to go more than 6 strokes before my board starts turning.  So is it the paddle side or the opposite side?  Thank you for your help.   

Ucycle

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 12:01:50 PM »
i lean on the rail that i paddle on but also i will paddle a J or C stroke if i want to keep it on one side longer.  im on a 6'8" board and usually i can get 3 stroke before it start turning.  But if i add in j/c  stroke, i can get 6-8 strokes before it turns.  Really practice on getting the paddle vertical, and really lean or put your weight on to the paddle.  maybe have someone video tape you paddling straight at them, so you can see how vertical your paddle stroke.
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Bulky

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 12:43:39 PM »
Yeah, I wondered that too.  It would make sense that you'd weight the side you're paddling on--the same way you weight the rail on the side you want to turn toward when you're surfing.  But it's not always clear.  I do wonder if I'm altering things a bit due to the fact that I'm paddling and stacking shoulders.

So I guess I'm not the best person to answer, but I will say if you're getting 6 strokes a side as a "new guy" you're not doing all that bad.  Interested in what others think.
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supnewguy

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 12:56:30 PM »
Thanks Ucycle and Bulky for the input. 
Not really a new guy anymore, but was when I signed up for an account two years ago.  I sup surf and race on a regular basis now.  As for my racing, my inability to keep the board straight and need to frequently change sides slows me down.  I don't understand how some of the experienced paddlers can paddle up to 20 strokes straight on the same side and only need to switch sides to give their muscles a break.  I used to think that leaning on the paddle side was the coventional wisdom. 
However, I attended a recent race clinic where the instructor recommended leaning on the opposite side.  I searched posts on here and found conflicting advice as well.  Really curious to hear what side other members lean on.     

Bean

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 01:10:25 PM »
That does makes sense.  At displacement speeds that the board tends to follow outline, but at planning speeds, the board wants to follow the rocker. 

upwinder

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 01:33:25 PM »
There's an ancient Ponobill clip (I think it's him) somewhere about paddling straight...he's in a drysuit on a lake. It's very instructive.

It's not uncommon for big boards to steer "opposite rail", especially if you're standing forward. Good shoulder stack & keeping paddle vertical is critical and a light weighting of the opposite rail might also help, depending on the board. My 2 14s, my 17 and my 12 all steer opposite rail when I'm standing middle or forward and at normal paddle speeds.

Might be helpful to get someone to video your stroke so you can see what you're really doing - what you think you're doing and what you are doing might be different.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 02:22:30 PM by upwinder »
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pdxmike

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 01:44:47 PM »
Try Larry Cain's advice for "Steering Without Changing Sides" from September on his blog:

http://www.larrycain.ca/blog.html

From his advice:

Steering without changing sides all comes down to two things:

1.   Getting over the water right at the catch
2.   Using your blade to pull the board towards the paddle not only in a forward direction but slightly to the side as well

If you are on a race board then there is a third thing to add:

3.   Leaning the board


He explains why you should lean on a displacement board to the opposite side of the paddle.  1 and 2 above are at least as important.


supdiscobay

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 01:46:47 PM »
At the speeds even a race SUP goes, it would be better to put weight on the opposite side and let the outline do its job.
When I was slalom racing on a sailboard and needed to get upwind a bit, I would always tip the board away from the wind and use the outline to help.  This worked better in lighter winds.
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XLR8

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 02:03:31 PM »
Planing and displacement hulls behave differently.  When on my raceboards I will footsteer by leaning on the left rail if I want to veer right and ok the right rail if I want to go left.  On a planing board I will lean on the side I wish to turn, left for left and right for right.  

 
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SUPerstitious

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 08:29:35 PM »
You didn't mention your board type, so perhaps an adjustment to the size or type of fin you are using would help.
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juandoe

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2012, 07:13:50 AM »
What XLR8 said.

ADKSUPr

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 09:43:48 AM »
Larry Cain's advice is excellent.  I wasn't able to paddle straight (on a race board) until I watched his video and worked on turning the board toward the side I'm paddling on. Even though I had been trying to keep my paddle vertical, I discovered the following:
- while I was getting my top hand over the rail, my bottom hand was out to far, making the paddle too far from the board and not vertical
- I wasn't concentrating on keeping the paddle vertical for the whole stroke
- paddling this way is hard and takes different muscles, so it is tough to break my bad habits, especially when I'm tired (my husband strained a muscle)
- a cross-wind in the wrong direction can totally frustrate and sabotage my attempts at paddling straight on one side
- Larry's advice on turning the paddle in toward your board a little really works!

So far, I haven't noticed a big difference from weighting the rail, but I may not be doing it well or consistently.


XLR8

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 04:18:07 AM »
In particular with raceboards I find you get different footsteering results with different nose/bottom/rail profiles.  For me, a board with a flatter bottom, hard rails and a wide flat tail doesn't footsteer nearly as well as a board with a narrower entry, round bottom and rails that stay soft through the tail.  An exception is the 404 monster (it was an older model that I paddled).  That board was pretty responsive.

With the Barks I found opening the paddle blade with a minor corrective stroke to be more effective than footsteering.  The M&M footsteers pretty nicely.  And maybe its because I spent more time on it than anything else, but my BlkBox 14 race has responded to footsteering better than anything I've paddled.  But it's an extreme version of the design qualities I mention (see photo below of the board in the shaping bay).

The best applications for footsteering, I've found, are #1: in the draft (and it took me awhile to choose to draft) and #2 while riding moderate swell.  I think some boards are just not suited to include footsteering in your bag of tricks.

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Argosi

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 07:49:16 AM »
Larry is a master of stroke technique. Using his method, you can eventually paddle continuously on one side while going straight. You can even make the board turn towards the side you're paddling on if you really want to.

Weeble

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Re: Confused on which rail to lean in order to paddle straight
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2012, 03:11:36 PM »
I paddle a Fanatic Fly Race 14 open ocean version, the one with the bigger nose and some rocker to it.  I have been working with a local paddle coach, who has worked with Larry Cain and teaches pretty much the exact same principles.  However, for the life of me, I cannot correct my yawing...it's a LOT better once we figured out how I nee to stroke as per my body shape/ height and physical limitations, such as my right shoulder suffered a 3rd degree separation about 20 years ago and surgery to fix it wasn't covered in my insurance. 

Now that I have some real power in my stroke, I am facing my two challenges...the yawing, and the ability to only paddle on my left side for short periods of time before my right shoulder just gives out.  Normally, not the worst thing to deal with unless I have to paddle across open water with wind and swell hitting me on my right side.  The constant left side paddling, plus the stress of stroke trying to keep the board somewhat straight with all the pressure coming from the right side as kept me out of a few races.  Not that I'm in the running for placing in races, but I do enjoy racing and at least paddling a strong, consistant race that I feel happy with my results.  So, the last few races I've had to wait until race day to go out and test the conditions before I sign up.  If I don't race, then I just board caddy for my fiancee and support the rest of my paddle club. 

My paddle coach has suggested putting in one of the ventral fin setups that Larry Allison promotes.  He says that since I can go with two smaller fins then for little less drag, and some help keeping the board straight that it might help with some of the stress on my right shoulder.  Has anyone here ever paddled a board with a ventral fin set up?
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