Author Topic: rocker for home made board  (Read 14330 times)

bracicot

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rocker for home made board
« on: August 21, 2007, 11:40:22 AM »
Hello all,  I have a question:  Is the Laird rockerline a decent one for a Florida board?  I've read different opinions on this; some say great paddler, others say it's slow.  I've made a bunch of boards before, but never a longboard, much less an SUP board, so I don't have a clue what rocker to use.  I measured my friend's Softop 12 footer, got the rocker off the 12'3" in the Clark catalog, and copied the Laird off a website.  I intend to use the board in small mushy surf as a paddle board, and as a light wind sailboard.  I live near a bunch of lakes too, so I'll probably do some flat water paddling as well.  Which of the three rockers listed would be the best for what I need?  When the surf here is good, I'll probably be on a regular board, so I don't necessarily need the same qualities in my SUP as someone who lives in Hawaii or Cali.  I think I would rate board speed pretty high in my priorities for the board, especially since I also intend to sail it.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated, since I'm ready to cut the stringer, and I don't want to end up with something that wouldn't suit me.  BYW, I'm 5'9" and 180 if that matters.

thanks, bruce

p.s.  If someone knows of a source of rocker profiles I could access, or has a better suggestion than any of the three I've come up with, don't hesitate to let me know.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 12:03:08 PM »
Hello all,  I have a question:  Is the Laird rockerline a decent one for a Florida board?  I've read different opinions on this; some say great paddler, others say it's slow.  I've made a bunch of boards before, but never a longboard, much less an SUP board, so I don't have a clue what rocker to use.  I measured my friend's Softop 12 footer, got the rocker off the 12'3" in the Clark catalog, and copied the Laird off a website.  I intend to use the board in small mushy surf as a paddle board, and as a light wind sailboard.  I live near a bunch of lakes too, so I'll probably do some flat water paddling as well.  Which of the three rockers listed would be the best for what I need?  When the surf here is good, I'll probably be on a regular board, so I don't necessarily need the same qualities in my SUP as someone who lives in Hawaii or Cali.  I think I would rate board speed pretty high in my priorities for the board, especially since I also intend to sail it.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated, since I'm ready to cut the stringer, and I don't want to end up with something that wouldn't suit me.  BYW, I'm 5'9" and 180 if that matters.

thanks, bruce

p.s.  If someone knows of a source of rocker profiles I could access, or has a better suggestion than any of the three I've come up with, don't hesitate to let me know.


Don't be so sure you'll regular surf when conditions are good. This sport is addictive like crack  ;D

Allan Cheateaux

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 12:35:50 PM »
Id start with 3 inches in the back, 5 ish in the front and 4.5 thick and see what it looks like. Keep the tail thick (2 inches or so)

bracicot

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 06:44:48 AM »
Thanks a lot for the input.  Hey DW, I wondered myself if I would actually switch back to regular, if by some chance I got good enough with standup!  In that vein, I'm starting to have second thoughts now about even making a 12 footer.  What are you guys riding?  Is it possible to get a decent glide and stability out of something shorter?

thanks again, bruce     

Chan

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 07:31:44 AM »
Hi Bruce,

Stability, glide, and performance, are absolutely possible on much smaller boards.  I am currently riding a 9', and awaiting the arrival of my new 8'6".   If you are looking for a fun board in the surf, I think sub 10 will do, provided you have the right shape.  If you are thinking of racing and/or touring then a longer waterline will be the way to go.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 07:33:06 AM »
Thanks a lot for the input.  Hey DW, I wondered myself if I would actually switch back to regular, if by some chance I got good enough with standup!  In that vein, I'm starting to have second thoughts now about even making a 12 footer.  What are you guys riding?  Is it possible to get a decent glide and stability out of something shorter?

thanks again, bruce     

Need more info to make guesses for you. Things to consider. AGE, plays a huge part in balance. Painfully obvious when allowing many friends try my board. HEIGHT, is a huge factor in balance. Forget board sports experience, standing with a paddle is different, even though similar to other board sports.

For example, Lets say you're 30 years old, 5'10 and 175 lbs. ~29 wide and 10'6 to 11'0 for average newbie.

Lets say your 50 years old and 200 lbs. ~30 wide and 11'0 to 11'6

20 years old and 150 lbs, ~28 wide and 10'0

That's my wild ass guess for the day.

Rand

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 08:27:39 AM »
Hi Bruce,
What blank are you using?  Is it a big EPS block or are you limited by a preshape?

I might suggest that you consider looking at some newer shapes.  Two of those are laydown designs, and the Laird is getting dated (in stand up terms) and was originally designed as a stable get started platform to begin with.

Let us know about the blank and hopefully we can offer some good suggestions.

bracicot

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 09:48:56 PM »
Hey everybody, thanks for all the input.  Rand, I'm not limited at all on the blank, since I'm making my own out of Home Depot EPS.  I would very much be interested in the newer shapes, since I'm sure there have been many developements since the Laird board came out.  I was looking at some of the American Blanks SUP shapes to get some ideas; are those modern shapes?  They seem like they have a lot of nose rocker, it seems like they also have a fairly constant curve in their rocker profile.  I've been reading it's good to have a fairly long flat section in the middle of the rocker.  Would you agree? 
As far as my personal experience with standup is concerned, I've spent a few hours on my friend's Softop 12' board, which I found pretty tippy.  I managed to catch a bunch of little waves, and had fun, but I could tell if there was any chop at all, I'd be getting wet quite a bit.  I definitely want something more stable than that board, but I don't want to go through all the trouble of making one, and then have it be so sluggish I'd outgrow it in a few weeks either!  I've also paddled my old HiFly windsurfer around quite a bit, and found it to be on the other extreme; super stable, but not much fun on the wave.  So I guess something between those two extremes is what I'm shooting for.
DW, I guess I'm in the old fart category.  I never really thought about it before, and when I read your post, kind of blew off the "50" scenario, until I remembered I'm 49!  But people tell me I'm a young 49 :-)
Thanks again, everybody.  I really appreciate all the advice.  I don't want to go crazy over-analyzing this thing, but I'd hate to put a bunch of time into something and have it suck.
I'm looking forward to some fairly specific recomendations.

thanks, bruce

boots

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2007, 10:00:32 PM »
Hey how is that Home Depot EPS, is it pretty similar in quality to a surfboard EPS blank? I read some articles about guys using it and seems like it would work fine. Have you shaped with it before? Is it 1# or 2# ?

Thanks

bracicot

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2007, 11:03:08 PM »
Hey Boots, I've never seen a surfboard eps blank so I don't know how it compares.  I have used the Home Depot stuff before; I  made a laydown board last year, and it worked fine.  That board was a balsa sandwich composite, so it may not be directly comparable, since so much of the strength of that board was in the skin.  The properties of this foam may be less suited to a conventional layup, which I'm using on this board.  It has very little compressive strength, so it may require a heavier glassing schedule.  You've probably read in Swaylocks that people are using 6oz cloth and putting 2 layers on the bottom and 3 on top, or even 3 and 4!  I was going to research all that too, but haven't got around to it yet, since I'm stuck on the rocker shape! 
They have sheets of extruded polystyrene foam (Dow Styrofoam) at Lowes, but it's over $30 a sheet, so I opted for the eps (expanded polystyrene) at Home Depot instead. 
I used to make windsurfers a while ago, and I always used extruded, which worked great.  It's much stronger, and not that much heavier.  If money was no object I'd definitely use the Dow, but that makes just the foam for the blank cost at least $90.  I'm interested to see what kind of replies you get on the foam question, since they may address any glassing layup issues this soft foam may have.

bruce

Rand

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2007, 03:21:38 AM »
Hey everybody, thanks for all the input.  Rand, I'm not limited at all on the blank, since I'm making my own out of Home Depot EPS.  I would very much be interested in the newer shapes, since I'm sure there have been many developements since the Laird board came out.  I was looking at some of the American Blanks SUP shapes to get some ideas; are those modern shapes?  They seem like they have a lot of nose rocker, it seems like they also have a fairly constant curve in their rocker profile.  I've been reading it's good to have a fairly long flat section in the middle of the rocker.  Would you agree? 

Hi Bruce,
Starting at the end, yes, a flatter rocker through the mid section seems critical.  Where to break from the flatter section into the nose and tail graduating rocker is the million dollar question.  Full three-stage boards can feel kinky.  Keeping an ample portion of the flatter section available in front of the designed parralel stance patch is really important in smaller boards.  If the board hobby-horses as you lean forward to stroke, there goes the glide.  Too flat and surfability suffers, so it is a fine line.  I am guessing here, but I would not rely on the blanks for your rocker, as only a very few shapers are hitting it, and I would be doubtful if the blank manufacturers were that progressive.  The best guys are builiding much smaller boards that feel better than many of the bigger boards that are out there.  More stable, solid paddling (if not really glide-ey), and a world of difference in the surf.

bracicot

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2007, 05:27:19 AM »
Yeah, I looked back at those American Blanks profiles and it seems like they just used old Clark rockers.
I may pick a couple of endpoints (nose and tail height), and just fill in the curve using TLR (that looks about right) technology.  I was thinking about 5" rise on the nose and 3" in the tail?  We haven't discussed template design, but I assume since you said "...parallel stance patch..." it's good to have straight sections in the side template as well?  Also, I was pretty set on 4.5" thickness, but I'm seeing 5" on some stuff now.  What's your take on that?

thanks, bruce

Rand

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2007, 05:42:59 AM »
Hey Bruce,

Well yes, but by accident  :)  I should have been more clear.  By parralell stance patch, I meant the patch of board relating to where you will be standing in your paralell (or forward facing) stance.  The stance sweet spot becomes much smaller on smaller boards.  That said, both of my current boards maintain nearly full width just in front of the wide point for about 10 inches (which feels right to me) although overall, I would not consider either to be really paralell shapes.

I will measure the rocker endpoints when I get back.

4.5 should be ample (max) for your size.


bracicot

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2007, 07:35:02 PM »
I think I've decided on a general course of action for the board:  10'6", 28.5 wide, flat bottom with just slight v in the tail, 3" tail rocker, 5" nose rocker.  I'm thinking single fin, but that is still open to change.
I worked up a rocker template tonight that looks OK, so I'm going to start the construction phase tomorrow.

thanks, bruce

Allan Cheateaux

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Re: rocker for home made board
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 10:51:57 PM »
Thanks a lot for the input.  Hey DW, I wondered myself if I would actually switch back to regular, if by some chance I got good enough with standup!  In that vein, I'm starting to have second thoughts now about even making a 12 footer.  What are you guys riding?  Is it possible to get a decent glide and stability out of something shorter?

thanks again, bruce     

Need more info to make guesses for you. Things to consider. AGE, plays a huge part in balance. Painfully obvious when allowing many friends try my board. HEIGHT, is a huge factor in balance. Forget board sports experience, standing with a paddle is different, even though similar to other board sports.

For example, Lets say you're 30 years old, 5'10 and 175 lbs. ~29 wide and 10'6 to 11'0 for average newbie.

Lets say your 50 years old and 200 lbs. ~30 wide and 11'0 to 11'6

20 years old and 150 lbs, ~28 wide and 10'0

That's my wild ass guess for the day.


I'd say thats a pretty gnarly shot in the dark. I just had a 53 year old beginner order a 10'0 x 27.25. Couldn't be talked up in size and has been paddling a board I made with the opinion that he might want smaller. Its so specialized to each person's trip that I don't know if any random guesses can be made.

 


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