Author Topic: takeoff from white water  (Read 11016 times)

alap

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takeoff from white water
« on: October 05, 2012, 10:53:07 AM »
there is an excellent thread going, the one started by punasurf about the surf stance and when to accept it. A lot of excellent answers, but all are dealing with takeoff in the green water.

I have a slightly different question, and first wanted to add  it to this thread, but then I decided to start a new one.

When I takeoff late, and I mean really late, i.e. when the wave is already breaking behind me, the lip is white and it hits me I have really, really hard time not to fall. And when I fall it always backwards, and the board goes to the beach and tugs me, and the following wave breaks over my head, etc.etc.etc.

I wonder, punasurf mentioned his surfing background, and surfers usually are taking off right from the breaking lip, perhaps he does it the same way on standup and ends up like me, falling back?

Regardless, how do you deal with this situation? there is no question you have to be in a surf stance, and from whatever limited success I have, I think your weight has to be on a front foot, but you have to shift it back very fast, and try to lower your stance as much as you could (after all proners use this push of white water for final acceleration, and because the are lying, they never fall back)?

the challenge for me is that the white water always travels fast and always kicks from behind, and standing too much front is scary because of the risk of pearling, and standing too much back or jumping back too early results in this fall...

any ideas?

I was even thinking about falling on my belly, taking off as proner and then standing back up...

Also, my last day at the ocean was huge. My usual beach (wick) was complete mess, the protected bay (Florencia) has huge current - like a river - inside, parallel to the shore, towards the rocks and huge riptide just outside. So I went to Long Beach. This is the shallow, steady almost flat bottom beach. No chance to get out in this beach break whatsoever, but I had spent the whole morning there. I was crossing the white wash as far out as I could and then making 180 turn and catching this one feet wall of boiling white water. All in the waist deep water. Kinda an ultimate late take off, but with no wave. Just white water only. I had way more success than I had anticipated (i guess 80 -90% success rate, and by success I mean not falling). All I did was surf stance, first the whole weight on the front foot, then during the push transfering it all the way back, and trying to stay low.

Not sure if there are other secrets to this late take off?

May be the timing of moving the weight back has to be very specific... e.g. when the one third or one quarter of your tail is covered with this white water, just guessing here...

starman

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2012, 11:26:54 AM »
I'm pretty sure you answered your own question. It's the sudden acceleration that tosses one off the board. Wide "surfers" stance and low center of gravity seems to work well. It also helps if you can get the board moving ahead of time.

Not to be tried in hollow breaks (:

gr8laker

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 11:34:25 AM »
I agree with alap. 

And depending on how steep the wave is, the other thing to consider is being ready to weight one of your back edges and turn very quickly, and/or even take off on an angle to help your board fit into the wave without rocketing straight forward and pearling. 

Like anything, you'll get better at this with time..

southwesterly

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 02:23:19 PM »
    The secret for taking off in broken whitewater is easy once you know how.
    First, paddle as fast as you can as the whitewater starts to reach you.
    Next, get in a very low exaggerated surf stance. Get ready to lean forward.
    As the broken wave hits you, try to weight your front foot.
    Then, as much as you hate to, fall off the back and repeat for the next few years.

alap

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 03:16:02 PM »
@sothwesterly - a good one :)
thats what i am doing for the last 6 years!

do you know how many years before the improvement?

seriously though, i dont think that putting all your weight on the front foot is an answer. Rather, I think, before it hits you, yes, but immediately after transfer the weight back.... but i am not sure... and i dont know exactly when, doing this by feel... with no clue...

Strand Leper

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 03:24:25 PM »
Get as low as you can go... then get lower... then get a little lower... doing the Conner Baxter choke paddle... then you are good.

After four years of standup surfing... I figured this out about two weeks ago.

SL
American Saltwater Angler Magazine's Seven Time Angler of the Year.* Founder and former CEO of "Fishstrong" an organization devoted to the fight against fishbait-hands-smell discrimination.

* subject to revocation due to a pending investigation by the FDA (fisherman drug association)

surfcowboy

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 07:20:36 PM »
Agreed, first, don't do it.

Secondly, get low and also, if I can react quickly throw my weight forward just as it hits me and use the paddle to brace, I sometimes get away with it.

It's better to just hang out with old guys who can teach you about wave selection. ;)

punasurf

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 11:31:51 PM »
Like surfcowboy said, wave selection is key.  Even prone surfing, I hate taking off in whitewater.  Always hurts the back, and by the time you get up you usually miss the critical section of the wave anyway.

Today the waves were good.  I proned it for 2 hours and then busted out the sup.  Since it was clean, or I'm just getting a little better, not sure which, my balance seemed better today.  My 180's preping for waves getting better.  And I even found myself in an almost full surf stance digging for a few late takeoffs without falling off before the wave got to me.

Don't get me wrong here.  I am still struggling with the whole sup surfing thing.  Blew it on the best waves that came my way today, but I am finding myself better braced and squatting lower while trying to get into the waves.

A lot depends on how much power the whitewash has.  I would not even consider it on a sup if the wash was bigger than knee high.

To answer your question.  Super low, surf stance, paddling like hell should help.  But I'd just head out  further and take off early. 

Myself, I'm still waiting  to see if I can get into waves before the break, so that when they do break I'm already up and cruising.  I can already do that on some of my surfboards.  Otherwise, why sup surf? (other than injury related issues, ie.  prone paddling, back problems, etc..)  but you know what I mean?  Why ride these big boards and carry paddles if it can't help you get into waves early.

alap

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 11:26:53 AM »
@strand - that a smart thing you suggesting. Let me rephrase, getting super low is obviously a key, but then because you are so low, the paddle becomes quite long for the occasion, so hold it not at the handle, but move both your hands a feet or even more down towards the blade? This essentially "decreases" your shaft, so you can stay low comfortably, until you are out of the woods. Do I understand you correctly? I think it is a very clever trick! Anything else? Can you elaborate more?

@surfcowboy - agree completely with you that wave selection and reading the waves is a major, most important skill in surfing; I think one can learn it only by trail and error...

@puna - I never take white water by choice, it is always out of necessity (except of course whitewash on a huge day when there is nothing else to do, and knee high wall of whitewash is a good exercise IMHO). E.g. I take it way to early, do 4-6-8-10 futile strokes, miss it never the less, and now I am a bit closer to the beach, and the following one comes and breaks too early... or I take nice green meaty wave, and it peters out, or I have a ride and exit it to the side, and again the next one crumbles, or you going back to the beach, stall and they start to reform and crumble on top... or I simply misjudge the takeoff, thinking I am about to take a beautiful steep one with just one single stroke, but instead it starts to brake 10 milliseconds too earlier... - many situations...






punasurf

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2012, 11:56:27 AM »
I know what you mean about timing.  I miss the ability to whip around or reposition myself quickly to the proper take-off point.  On my sup, everything is kind of in slow motion. Had to laugh about 4-6-8-10 futile strokes.  Seems I do that a lot.  My problem, I think, is that I have a hard time applying weight to the front of my board when I know it should be there.  Got to work on that.

banzai

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2012, 06:38:38 PM »
I lean forward, crouch low, and paddle as the wave hits me. You have to be ready for the sudden forward push that the wave will give you. The key is to lean forward, it feels wrong but it works.

colas

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2012, 01:10:10 AM »
Just drop your weigth in place as down as possible, while at the same time extending your rear leg to the max to the rear, think of a very long bike kickstand, even putting your foot on the rear kickpad, while keeping all your weight on the front leg. fencing, basically.


alap

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2012, 10:37:01 AM »
@colaas - seems like this exaggerated squat stance is your trademark. in this neighboring thread where you posted your sequence on the non breaking small wave, it is quite similar, but you even bury the nose down (I understand it is a very wide board in this sequence, with wide nose). too bad this picture is not a sequence... in fact it is not clear if the wave was taken still in the green water or after the white water hit... Looks like this squat works quite well for you... I am not sure I can do it on the floor without falling... just kidding...

so the common wisdom boils to sitting low-low-low with the weight on front foot, with suggestion to lean forward or take this exxagerated fencing position (essentially very similar).

I have one specific question now to you guys, especially to those of you who mastered this or had any success - its a blade at the moment it hits you. With a regular green water takeoff as soon as I feel that I caught it, I finish the stroke and my blade is in the air and I start my next move (bottom turn, I'll put the blade on the surface very soon to lean on it, but I am already surfing). (Ok I may do one more quick stroke, just to be sure, but after that blade is in the air).

Where should the blade be when white water hits you? In the water or in the air? I think this is important... because if it is in the water I kinda have a third point of support... but at the same token as it hits I will accelerate and if the blade is vertical and I am moving forward instead of propelling me forward the blade will be acting like brake... (pressure will be on another side) - I actually got a lot in this situation on my last day in whitewash (and it was an awkward feel, but I wasn't falling).

As I writing this, perhaps the secret is to have the blade in the water, but with a surge of speed immediately reposition it into the leaning position (blade back and horizontally) without bringing the blade to the air?

colas

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 01:19:31 PM »
Actually, it is an italian gal on the picture, Alena.

Burying the nose down is just something that work well on less than 7' SUPs - not needed on longer SUPs, and you must have thin rails in front for it to work anyways.

On the paddle, I think having the blade in the water should be good. However, I must admit that when taking off in whitewater, all my mind is focused to be committed towards the front and not to "chicken out" and straighten up, which means instant destruction, whatever the paddle position. I guess just pausing the paddle mid-air to enter the water jut a blink before the whitewater hits could be the trick..

14 West

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Re: takeoff from white water
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 01:54:43 PM »
After many sessions at Long Beach, Wick and Flo this summer, not to be overlooked is your positioning in the water in the first place. Everyone has covered the white water thing, get low, wide stance, yadda, yadda, but the better question is why? At LB and Flo you'll find some epic peeling lefts and rights up and down the beach, and at Wick you'll find sandbar based a-frames everywhere, but with both the same is true, skip riding the foam, instead, if you are standing, face the ocean and dive under the foam, it should pull your board through and you'll be better off for it. Now, pay attention to where the shoulders are forming, and make it your objective to paddle there, sit (or stand if you have a big board, (I think you have a small one though)) and wait for another wave to break there. Catch those, and only those. Riding foam is kooky, there are plenty of small to large shoulders you can find all over at those three beaches, spend your time catching those and your surfing will improve far faster than wasting energy on foam. Besides, every wave eventually turns to foam anyways, so get your practice in there.

One final thought, LB and Wick are extremely variable due to their exposure (Flo less so), waves can come from multiple directions, and multiple sizes (yesterday ranged from 2'-8' at LB), which can make getting out difficult, especially if the period is low. Three crucial strategies for success. 1. Wait. If the whole beach is lit up overhead (which can sneak in with the high period south swells), you aren't getting out, and most of no one else is either, you'll see the best surfers on the inside waiting it out too, don't waste your energy, patience. 2. If you are heading out and crash just before you make it outside with a wave heading your way, sometimes the best option is to tuck your paddle under your chest with the handle facing forward and quickly make a prone break for the outside. The seconds it costs you to stand up could have you back on the beach. 3. Look for the rips and channels, and head out there. Break breaks have sandbars, rips and channels all over the place, make use of them to get out, otherwise you are just working against yourself. There was a huge rip this weekend where I was surfing at LB, clearly identified by the sandy colored water beside crystal clear waters, It was probably flowing at near 5 knots, and made easier work for getting out. Just keep in mind paddling in a strong rip is like paddling down a river, with boils and weird currents, again, depending on your skill, sometimes best to just prone it out.

Good luck.
Don't forget to bring a towel!

 


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