What's the deal with all the Knee Sup'rs in the line up?

[SlatchJim]

Perhaps we've all missed the misnomer.  "Knee Sup'rs"  should really be Knee Kup'rs.  If you're not standing up paddling, then that term doesn't apply.  You're kneeling up paddling.  In the past I've been prone to sitting and paddling...ok "prone" was a bad word choice... We definitely need a position paper on the subject.

Damn you Webster's Dictionary.

[Cardiff Sweeper]

There's no right or wrong in knee paddling. There's no right or wrong in not liking it.

Some people just don't like it.
It's an opinion.
Some of us have bad knees, and either stand constantly or prone paddle when needed.

When I see knee paddlers on a 2-3ft day (or smaller), it's a signal, IN MY OPINION, that they might be inexperienced and I should stay away from them for the safety of everyone.

Just yesterday, I was going down the line on a 2-footer, and the guy knee paddling ahead of me, who caught the wave, had no clue I was coming. At least I saw him, and turned at the last second.

Enough griping, I'm going surfing.

[SoCalSupper]

guess im in the minority-
Knee paddle all you want-no one is stopping you-like CS i will keep my distance from you, no worries.

Do not knee paddle into a wave when there are other more experienced supers in the lineup-just dont-go practice and get more proficient, then come back and be smothered with kisses...

I have pissed off lower lumbars so i cant knee paddle well, the angle sets them off, but even if i could its not as efficient or safe as tucking the paddle under your moobs and prone paddling like  a striped ape.

If you do knee paddle back out at least be sure to take your lumps by paddling into the whitewash behind the person whose line you are destroying by paddling in front of the oncoming surfer. This is across the board surfer etiquette-sometimes its hard to do this-i have broken this rule from time to time out of necessity but in general dont screw up somebodys clean face because you dont want to deal with the whitewater. Dealing with the surge and power of whitewater especially on a bigger day is way more manageable either standing or proning then it is on your knees-thats a fact. If your skills are not up to speed for standing or proning over whitewater on a bigger day-consider surfing somewhere else or just put in the time on other days to improve your skills.

Flame away....

[Celeste]

You don't think there's something inherently less safe in getting hit on the head by a 25 lb board vs. a 5 lb board?  Let's see the video of novice SUPrs knee safely paddling for waves in a crowded surf zone.   

Thank you for demonstrating the points of my last exactly.  To answer your question, it depends on the kinetic energy of each board.  That is going to depend a lot more on velocity then mass.  KE is defined as (mass/2)x(velocity^2) .  That means that small changes in speed mean large changes in KE.  Your 5 pound board is going to accelerate at a higher rate for a given force, so will have a higher speed after a given time.  

I notice you chose weights that represent the upper and lower limits of each group so as to represent a worst case scenario.  I also notice that you have added an extra bound to your argument, that being a crowded line up, in effect changing what you said in the first place.

surfinJ, the strike zone argument does have merit in a crowded lineup, but would seem to be offset by the lower center of gravity making for a more stable system.

[southwesterly]

I think it's already been said before but the difference between getting hit
with a SUP compared to a 5'10" shortboard, is like being bit by a pitbull compared to a pomeranian.

But that's not the point of this thread.  If someone is being a menace to others in a crowded line up,
paddling on his knees or not, he will be informed. Trust me.
We don't need any more regulations. The more rules you have, the bigger chance you have
of them to coming back to bite you in the ass.

[Beasho]

two years ago on the NS of oahu. . . there was a local hawaiian dude on a SUP . . paddling from his knees .
this dude ripped . .  . .

In defense of Endlessfight:  The other day I was catching point break wave that faded from chest high to knee high and the only way to stay with the wave was to crouch down, lower my profile (e.g. lower drag) and paddle.  I rode it for another 100 yards like this on my knees. 

This made me think that there may be a hidden big wave strategy here.  A few hundred yards behind me was a local big wave spot that often goes bigger than 30 feet.  In certain conditions the wind on the face can be so extreme it literally blows you out the back.  The proners have an advantage that could be overcome by paddling from the knees.  Take it from kook to extreme machine.  Seems a bit dicey, but do any Hawaiians or others have experience with this type of approach?

[808]

No way I am trying it. I want the power from my feet and being on my knees just sounds all bad to me. The best way I know to combat that problem of being blown back over the wave is to use a HEAVY board. Not to mention the problem of being right in the impact zone for the next wave to obliterate you after you get blown off the back. Makes me want to go run rock under water right now. Gulp... 

[bts]

You don't think there's something inherently less safe in getting hit on the head by a 25 lb board vs. a 5 lb board?  Let's see the video of novice SUPrs knee safely paddling for waves in a crowded surf zone.   

Thank you for demonstrating the points of my last exactly.  To answer your question, it depends on the kinetic energy of each board.  That is going to depend a lot more on velocity then mass.  KE is defined as (mass/2)x(velocity^2) .  That means that small changes in speed mean large changes in KE.  Your 5 pound board is going to accelerate at a higher rate for a given force, so will have a higher speed after a given time.  

I notice you chose weights that represent the upper and lower limits of each group so as to represent a worst case scenario.  I also notice that you have added an extra bound to your argument, that being a crowded line up, in effect changing what you said in the first place.

surfinJ, the strike zone argument does have merit in a crowded lineup, but would seem to be offset by the lower center of gravity making for a more stable system.

Bio major arguing with an engineer...bet this doesn't turn out well for me.

At any rate, unless you're talking about someone shooting his board at you, the velocity will be fixed by the wave and more or less constant.

So the two main factors will be board weight and surface area, since we're talking momentum transfer of the wave.

That said, a bunch of guys (or gals) kneeling implies a bunch of beginners, presumably a beginner friendly break, most likely accompanied by a bunch of beginner prone boarders on waterlogged 12 foot rental boards that probably weigh around 40 pounds. And everyone is clueless about the danger.  Sound like Canoes in the heart of Waikiki.  Not my first choice of places to go, but I occasionally end up there, since the hotels provide a fairly effective wind block.

[Celeste]

Hey bts, a well reasoned analysis that holds up in a static (in equilibrium)situation, but as my first post was about starting and transitioning from knees to standing, and I have not changed, you can not consider that a static situation.  Also, while you can not make your board approach the shore any faster then the wave travels, you can certainly make a board move faster then the wave is approaching the shore by traversing its face.  Riding down the face to a bottom turn then using momentum and inertia to take you back up the wave face.  Your average speed will only equal that of the wave, but instantaneous will be much higher.   

But if I may return to my original point, people haul out the safety card to support their opinions as if it is sacrosanct, without any real proof.  I am not good at acquiescing poor reasoning or pomposity, just ask the men I work with

[JC50]

What about all the longboarders knee paddling around?