Engaging the Hips

[SpecialK]

I'm new to racing and am at the point where I find myself seriously thinking about technique to get faster. The issue is the hips, which I'm sure are a critical source of power. Now, what is the proper feeling we should be chasing?

1. Hips rotating forward, and then uncoiling during the power phase (ie: feeling like your paddle-side hip is forward, then driving back, with some push coming from the non-paddle side leg in a slightly staggered stance).

2. Or, do the hips drive forward? That is, feeling like you're thrusting your hip toward the planted paddle?

Or is it a combination? Unwinding the hips backward, but then driving forward/beginning forward rotation while the paddle is still in the water before the recovery (in other words, the hips leading the recovery after unwinding). Watching a C1 canoer seems to suggest a forward hip thrust.

I know this is critical, just as in any sport (even a good golf swing is built from the ground up). Any advice on getting the right feeling of how the hips act?

[headmount]

I know this is a good question because when I got a massage the other day, my hips were screaming when she dug into them.  I think the answer is definitely yes but know there should be some great feedback on this one. 

I can only relate from my experience down winding which sometimes requires a drive with the hips to get onto a glide or a breaking wave... when I want to get the max out of one or two strokes.  My feet and up to my hips seem to shove my board forward.  I'll follow this thread ...  to see how the others express it. 

[paddlestandingup]

Yes, this is a good question.  I've been thinking about rotating my hip forward during the recovery to get a little better reach and better match what my shoulders are doing so I can use my trunk and legs.  I'm still experimenting with this and have to concentrate on it so I'm really not sure at this point.  I would like to see what the more experienced people say about this.

[balance_fit]

1. Hips rotating forward, and then uncoiling during the power phase (ie: feeling like your paddle-side hip is forward, then driving back, with some push coming from the non-paddle side leg in a slightly staggered stance).

2. Or, do the hips drive forward? That is, feeling like you're thrusting your hip toward the planted paddle?

Or is it a combination? Unwinding the hips backward, but then driving forward/beginning forward rotation while the paddle is still in the water before the recovery (in other words, the hips leading the recovery after unwinding). Watching a C1 canoer seems to suggest a forward hip thrust.

Special K
Thanks for bringing this up....because it's one of the favorite themes for discussion whenever addressing paddling technique.  I feel that, until detailed kinesiological and movement analysis research is made, stand up paddlers should strive to use the hip as the structural center of movement, because it's linked to the paddle via arms and core and to the board via legs. And it is the powerhouse of the body.

In the absence of research, some observations can be made based on experience, elite level paddler's technique and crossover technique from OC, C1, etc.

1. The paddler can feel that hip motion is engaged in applying power to both paddle and board, because in the paddling kinetic chain, the paddle stays mostly stationary and the board glides past it, so both ends of the chain, arms and legs, face resistance, and the hip is the connecting link.

2. As you mention, hips that rotate forward and uncoil during the power phase operate on a vertical axis, and once the paddle is set, the energy stored in coiling them forward rebounds back producing forward movement of the board.

3. As you also mentioned, hips that drive forward during the power phase operate on a transverse plane and once the paddle is set, the energy stored in coiling them back (flexing hips) rebounds forward pushing the board ahead.

4. Rotation of the hips as described above is coupled with flexing of the  trunk and opposes the "forward hip drive".

5. A combination movement seems to be needed if the paddler is to use both, hip rotation and forward drive while the paddle is planted.

6. To plant the paddle ahead, hip rotation is coupled with arm extension and torso rotation (shoulder stacking), so, if forward hip drive is to be combined in the paddling motion, it could very well happen at the end of the rotation.

7. Since forward hip drive happens with an extension of the previously flexed torso, it may very well help to bring the paddle out of the water because the body extends and pulls the paddle out of the water at the same time.

As the other zoners have realized, there's a moment in which either hip motion becomes useful. Either to power up to catch a swell or to get more reach.

Maybe, in controlled conditions in a lab, each motion can be analyzed and optimized to get the best out of the stroke. But then, one has individual differences and styles to consider.

Does someone want to analyze Connor Baxter's signature stroke? It seems quite effective too !

SpecialK, you got a keen eye...

Be well

[SpecialK]

Ok, I think it's clear that the forward hip rotation is necessary to plant the paddle. Then the question is, if the hips leads the stroke, they should be unwound first, leaving room for forward thrust in the 2nd half of the stroke, while the core and shouders are still unwinding. In other words, this sequence:

1. Fully coiled and paddle planted.
2. Hips unwind through 1st half of stoke.
3. Core, chest and shoulders follow the hips.
4. Hips, now fully unwound, begin to recoil forward (or thrust?) while the core and shoulders finish unwinding.
5. Forward hip movement promotes exit, provides an anchor for core and shoulders to keep unwinding with more power, and has effectively started recovery from the bottom up.
6. Core, chest and shoulders follow the hips in the recovery.
7. Back to #1.

So... the sequence is alway hips-core-chest-shoulders. Unwinding and then recoiling. The key though, is that the hips begin to recoil while the blade is still in the water. Or do they? That is the answer I'm after and seems to be the impression I'm getting watching C1 paddlers, which should translate to SUP.

[balance_fit]

SpecialK

You have beautifully described a sequence. This sequence seems to start to develop power once the paddle is fully planted. It seems to draw power on to the board in this pattern: (not meaning direction) paddle, arms, shoulders, core, hips, legs, board. This is a good starting point for practice.

Also, we have been talking about the thrust of the hips coming first, around a vertical axis (rotation left/right) then, through a transverse axis (flexion/extension) in coordination or coupling, with the other elements (legs-board, arms-paddle), and here it seems to be the answer to your question, yes, the hips need to recoil while the paddle is in the water, because if not, their power will be lost to extending the body and facilitating recovery.

A note: The unwinding and recoiling mechanism is always at work in this and other sequences, because stretching the muscles before contracting them activates elastic elements within the muscle fibers. This facilitates the recoil effect, saving energy from active contraction, to a point. Watch how a volleyball player jumps, squatting then pushing off...also, a pitcher cocking movement to produce a fast ball.  Be aware that there's the issue of over stretching the muscles by over unwinding, which then will diminish the power they will have available for contraction.

Even though this sequence seems very logical and may enhance paddling efficiency, if the conditions around the paddler change, the sequence will have to be altered.

In flatwater, straight line, no wind and without board/paddler stability issues, one can apply this sequence. In choppy water, side, head or downwinds, the lower extremity will have to sort it's effect on the board between balance, steering and thrust. If this happens, the sequence will be altered and the paddler will have less power available to transfer to the board, because legs will be very occupied with balancing, steering and/or thrusting.

So, it seems necessary to develop alternate sequences for many other situations, because if not, the paddler, once faced with a different scenario than smooth windless flatwater, will promptly lose speed.

There's many other possibilities for sequences. For analysis, one can break the whole kinetic chain in parts, say, motion around shoulder girdle, trunk, hip, legs. Then, consider the arms and how they connect to the paddle, creating a second or third class lever or changing the blade's pitch for steering. The legs, aside from thrust, need to be analyzed as balancing mechanisms and steering joints too.

In all, since the body has so many segments associated with paddling, and so many variables in equipment plus conditions, the analysis could become overwhelming. Even so, it's not out of reach. This is where the input of many different paddlers expressing their points of view enriches the perspective and makes the analysis easier.

Time on water, after understanding the basics of the movement sequences, will help the paddler decide which works better for each condition, equipment and body type.

Please review Dr. Kemecsey Imre kayak "power circles" conceptualizations. With some modifications, they'll help the paddler standing up to understand better the sequences in movement.

http://kemecsey.uw.hu/  ... once at the website click "Zen and the art of kayaking"

Be well

[C1SUPer]

Cool thread, guys.  Special K I like the way you have watched C1 and described what is happening.  You have a good eye for technique and have summarized the basic C1 technique pretty well. 

My experience in coming to SUP from C1 is that SUP is basically C1 standing up.  Drop any C1 paddler on a SUP and they do pretty much the same thing, then in time refine the movement to be slightly more SUP friendly.  When I watch Danny or Jamie they do the same thing with their hips which makes me think if they took the time to learn the C1 balance they'd be pretty competent in C1. 

Balance_fit, when I first started trying to paddle SUP in rougher water my technique changed away from my C1 stroke just in order to survive.  As I am developing increasing competence I am finding the stroke is exactly the same, with only fine subconscious adjustments made as required.

If I get some time I'll post in detail how i think the hips work on SUP based on that C1 influence.

[headmount]

So let me make sure I have this correct... paddle side hip is slightly forward on plant and opposite hip rotates forward on pull?

[SpecialK]

I admit, I'm a technique junkie but with a background in other sports. Paddling technique is totally new and fascinating to me. Anyway, for those that are interested, I just found this great technique checklist - it looks like our coaches here in Canada might be using it or something similar. It breaks down the stroke in clear detail and pretty much confirms what we've been discussing above...

http://canoekayak.ca/files/47/83/CanoeTechChek.pdf

[bean]

For a little more perspective, here is a link to Dave Kalama's 2010 article

http://www.davidkalama.com/2010/12/use-your-hips/

[balance_fit]

And the thread has become so interesting ! Lots to read tonite !

Headmount, that's the hip rotation on the vertical axis. Sort of a pedalling action.

[juandoe]

I am still trying to figure out what to do with the hips. 

Terrell's flume video shows how he leads with the near hip and has rotated it forward prior to the catch.  I try to initiate my recovery with the hips.  This works for me initially when I am fresh.  See from 1:00

Terrell
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15620.0

I find that my form changes when I tire so that I am "hanging" on the paddle more and have more knee bend at the end of the stroke, essentially sitting down.  With this position, there is less hip rotation and it is more just standing up and sitting back down on the next stroke.  I feel that it is more analogous to the Baxter stroke discussion.

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=13521.0
JohnathanC's description of Annabel's stroke is what I am envisioning.  There is minimal hip rotation as far as I can tell. 

[SUPpaddler]

I'm new to this so I'm going out on a limb, but I've been observing and gathering videos of better paddlers for study.  At least for the sake of discussion, I will disagree with the description of hip rotation.

While it's natural to try to extend reach by twisting the paddle side hip forward for the catch, it is not compatible with the hinging at the hips that occurs for the "leaning" component of the stroke.  

I'll describe the better strokes like this.  Rotate primarily at the torso and shoulders for the catch, keeping the hips nearly aligned with one another and perpendicular to the board. (Omit the rotation step for the "Connor" stroke.)  Lean as little as possible to get the paddle to the water so as not to waste that motion with the paddle in the air.  

Once the paddle hits the water, the stroke begins with unwinding of the torso through the early stage, combined with continual "leaning."  The leaning involves hinging at the hips, knees, and ankles, so that the body is folding downward like an accordion, putting body weight on the paddle. Some paddlers carry this as far as having their torsos nearly parallel to the board.  The angle of bending at the knees may be as much as the angle of bending at the hips (Connor), or somewhat less (most others.)

The leaning motion carries that paddle rearward until the lower arm would otherwise need to bend, at which point the body begins to straighten up, facilitating the exit.  The straightening of the body for the exit may (or may not) add some extra force as the hips moves forward as they straighten.

[SUPpaddler]

Seeing Jim Terrell on the flume supports my point that hip rotation is not compatible with hinging at the hips for leaning.  Notice that once his paddle catches, he uses his hips and torso only for rotation, and he does not lean any further.  That's almost unique among top paddlers from my observation.  Maybe it stems from his canoe racing technique.   Contrast that to Annabel, Connor, Candice, or Danny Ching for instance, all of whom employ significant leaning by bending the hips during the power phase instead of rotating them.

[catdailey]

My background is dragon boat and outrigger. Here is the best I can describe for the stroke...

Assume a stroke on the right side of the SUP with feet evenly planted on the board.

There has to be some element of hinge and some element of rotation in the stroke. The human body is stronger in rotation; hinging is easier but inefficient.

1. Bottom hand and right hip rotate forward together. That allows maximum reach for the catch and allows the paddler to use the entire core in a safe, effective manner. Think hip and hand travel together.
2. Arms lift the blade, not the shoulders (keep your shoulders out of your ears :>)
3. Top arm shoulder and left hip pull back. Note that top arm shoulder pulls back, not up. I believe that the verbiage often used "stacking the shoulders" is incorrect in this.
4. Some hinge in the upper body towards the water, with hands pushing the blade into the water for the catch. Think of falling onto the blade, or weighting the blade face.  This is the A frame. Think of the angle of the shaft into the top hand, the body, and the back of the LEFT hip (on your butt) as the A.
5. Start by unhinging at the hips slightly before thinking of de-rotating the shoulders or pushing the left pec through. The shoulders will naturally de-rotate. By unhinging a bit first, you keep the paddle at a positive angle for a fraction longer than if you immediately start to de-rotate.
6. As the body fully unhinges and the shoulders de-rotate (with the top hand pressing down and the bottom hand pulling-both evenly at the same time-DO NOT punch the top hand forward), the left hip should be drawn forcefully forward while the right hip presses back (think of swinging a golf club or a baseball bat from the hips). The goal is to squeeze the water between the positively angled blade face and your LEFT hip or left butt cheek.
7. Your hands should be positioned one directly over top the other with the blade pulling in a straight line close to the board, not at an angle.
8. As soon as your right arm (straight!) reaches your torso, take the blade out of the water. Don't pull the blade past your torso (don't over-rotate your shoulders).

The only thing I don't know about for SUP and I might add once I have time to play on a board, in both DB and Outrigger, the Left hip in the above scenario would be slightly unweighted at the catch. I need to explore what that does to the rails and if it's desirable to have the right rail sink slightly at the catch. Don't know the answer to that one yet.

Repeat :>

Cat