Fastest for downwind?

[Teene]

Picked up a 16'x32"x7" Downwinder built by the Caldwells at Island Glass... here is a pic of the side profile with Brian holding it... and a pic from the front angle... Brian and his wife Juliana make custom sups... Island Glass on the West Side of Oahu... 808-664-2161 or their cell 808-457-9919 Thanks for this topic... lots of good info!

[Admin]

I am liking the Vortice a lot, and it seems to glide nicely and feels quite fast to me, but it is the first board of this type that I have paddled so I have no frame of reference.  I definately want to grab a ride on the hollow carbon XP as well as the other downwind models.   

One question for those of you who have paddled a few of these.  Do all long downwinders turn opposite to rail pressure?  The Vortice turns left when right rail pressure is applied when gliding.  That took me off guard at first as I was leaning into the turns like a normal surfboard rail turn, but the board was sweeping the opposite way.  I hit the water more than once until that clicked.    Mid way through my second run, I started to get comfortable with it, and had a period of some fun linked glides (not ready to call railroading quite yet).

So fun figuring this stuff out.

[DavidJohn]

Picked up a 16'x32"x7" Downwinder built by the Caldwells at Island Glass... here is a pic of the side profile with Brian holding it... and a pic from the front angle... Brian and his wife Juliana make custom sups... Island Glass on the West Side of Oahu... 808-664-2161 or their cell 808-457-9919 Thanks for this topic... lots of good info!

Hey Teene..Nice looking board...Do you have a pic showing the bottom..tail shape..and fin position?

DJ

[Dwight (DW)]

One question for those of you who have paddled a few of these.  Do all long downwinders turn opposite to rail pressure?  The Vortice turns left when right rail pressure is applied when gliding. 

Windsurfers with center boards do the same. I guess placing that Vortice fin way forward is making it act like one.

[DavidJohn]

One question for those of you who have paddled a few of these.  Do all long downwinders turn opposite to rail pressure?  The Vortice turns left when right rail pressure is applied when gliding. 

Windsurfers with center boards do the same. I guess placing that Vortice fin way forward is making it act like one.

Some windsurfers even without a centerboard do it...and many goatboats have the fin forward and they don't do it...So...imo...that's not why.

DJ

[Tom]

One question for those of you who have paddled a few of these.  Do all long downwinders turn opposite to rail pressure?  The Vortice turns left when right rail pressure is applied when gliding. 

Windsurfers with center boards do the same. I guess placing that Vortice fin way forward is making it act like one.

Some windsurfers even without a centerboard do it...and many goatboats have the fin forward and they don't do it...So...imo...that's not why.

DJ

Here’s my theory. A board without fins will turn based on the curve of its side and bottom. Race boards and windsurfers have basically flat bottoms and outwardly curved sides. For a flat bottomed board to turn into its lean, it would have to have a inwardly curved side cut like snowboards do or the new shaped skis. Since a board is narrow at the nose and tail & wide in the middle. It would turn away from the lean. If you add angled fins, like side bites, pressure on the fin will cause the board to turn in the direction the fins point.

[Allan Cheateaux]

Its usually the entry that will cause it to steer opposite of rail pressure.A pronounced "vee" or paddleboard entry is the usual culprit. Although knowing this, on my boards I shift weight to compensate and it evens out any yawing you get.

[Teene]

[

Hey Teene..Nice looking board...Do you have a pic showing the bottom..tail shape..and fin position?

DJ

DJ... the bottom is mostly flat... rails are rolled with no edges... the tail has a Hydro vee... fin box is 2' up from tail... not much time on it... it has a lot of glide and goes well in small down wind surf
have you  or anyone heard of the "penetrator" out of Australia... comments on that design...

[Admin]

[Here’s my theory. A board without fins will turn based on the curve of its side and bottom. Race boards and windsurfers have basically flat bottoms and outwardly curved sides. For a flat bottomed board to turn into its lean, it would have to have a inwardly curved side cut like snowboards do or the new shaped skis. Since a board is narrow at the nose and tail & wide in the middle. It would turn away from the lean. If you add angled fins, like side bites, pressure on the fin will cause the board to turn in the direction the fins point.

Hi all,

Tom, you may be on to something.  I do think that the board is following its rail profile.  I would guess that it was designed to do so.  The bottom, however, is not flat.  It has a substantial Vee with two of the deepest concaves you will ever see (nealy an inch each).  It seems like these pop it up onto a gliding plane pretty easily (again, I have nothing to compare it to yet), and help it to maintain that glide.  When the rail is pressured, it feels like the outward edge of the concave creates a strong carving surface and the board follows that right around.

That same Vee and double helps the board track really well, and it allows you to maintain course while paddling pretty hard on a single side.

We have waves coming and I have to admit, all I have been thinking about is downwinding    

[Dwight (DW)]

Drop the center board on a windsurfer and it turns opposite. Retract the center board and it turns normal.

Center fins do cause this.

[Chan]

The fin could contribute to this, but not likely the culprit as it is still relatively far back (not mid board like a daggerboard).  I struggled with the counterintuitive steering, particularly when riding swells while Randy made the adjustment relatively easily.  His weight and previous experience may have eased the transition.  Likely, he would have smoked me anyway.  I was starting to get the hang of it towards the end of day two.  I am still concerned, however, that this board may be a bit too large for someone my size.  What are your thoughts?   At my weight (115) would smaller be better?  Lighter and narrower like the Carbon XP?  Should I go custom?

[Byronmaui]

The fin could contribute to this, but not likely the culprit as it is still relatively far back (not mid board like a daggerboard).  I struggled with the counterintuitive steering, particularly when riding swells while Randy made the adjustment relatively easily.  His weight and previous experience may have eased the transition.  Likely, he would have smoked me anyway.  I was starting to get the hang of it towards the end of day two.  I am still concerned, however, that this board may be a bit too large for someone my size.  What are your thoughts?   At my weight (115) would smaller be better?  Lighter and narrower like the Carbon XP?  Should I go custom?

I am no expert but if I were you I would sit down with either Bill Foote or Ding Kings aka. Sandwich Isle and get a custom built if you are currently not happy. Before that you should do at least 10 downwind runs and see if performance changes. My input is not fact just opinion.

Aloha

Byron

[Chan]

Hi Byron,
Didn’t you read my post? Randy is faster than me, how could I be happy?   I may need to have a sit down, errr, stand up with Foote.
Aloha,
Chan

[DavidJohn]

Drop the center board on a windsurfer and it turns opposite. Retract the center board and it turns normal.

Center fins do cause this.

I used a windsurfer for a year as a cheap sup board...I used no centerboard...and it always turned the wrong way when trying to turn it...so...imo...the centerboard is not the only thing causing this.

I'm pretty sure it is many things going on here..Outline..rail shape..tail shape..the V..and maybe even where you are trying to turn it from...and not so much the fin..or fins...or even fin possition.....I maybe wrong.

DJ

[Teene]