Author Topic: OC6 shoulder ache  (Read 11521 times)

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
OC6 shoulder ache
« on: August 17, 2011, 01:48:49 PM »
Two months ago I  started paddling 6 man twice a week and man do my shoulders ache, never felt like this from SUP surfing or even long DW SUP paddling.
Kind of a low grade ache that doesn't go away, like I'm sore from weightlifting but I don't recover.
Am I doing myself any long term harm or do you think I just need to keep at it?
Form is good, paddle length correct.

SUP_Dawg

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 03:04:58 PM »
Not a Dr. but sounds like it could be tendonitis. I get that from swimming to many miles a week. Rest is the thing that fixes it for me.

CMC

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 08:01:37 PM »
No doubt your form is good.

I paddle 6 man also, used to get sore shoulders until I got some pro paddle technique coaching.  I was basically paddling with my shoulders lifted.  My elbow pointed upwards on top arm lifiting the shoulder upwards.

With the shoulder down and elbow bent slightlty it transfers the load to the lat muscle and back and away from the shoulder.  No more shoulder pain.  Also much more powerful stroke.  The drill is that your top shoulder does not obscure your chin if looking from the side.

It may help you, it certainly did me.  Not only now faster on 1 man, SUP but also able to put in for much longer times in the 6 man.  The more upright bent from the hips not the lower back position also does not compress the lungs as much meaning I get puffed half as much, it's great to be passing people and not even be breathing.

This guy showed me why the top guys go so fast but don't even look like they are working.  Best money ever spent.  The coaches at the 6 man clubs just dont have the time to work 1 on 1.  This guy is one of Aust best OC paddlers, ex ironman, OC6 steerer for mulitple Aussie titles etc etc.

pdxmike

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 6186
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2011, 09:56:04 PM »
Good advice, CMC.  It's amazing how a good coach can see things to change, and once you hear the advice, it sounds so simple and obvious you can't believe you didn't think of it yourself.  Your own short explanations about elbow position and posture sound so simple and obvious themselves, but I hadn't thought about either of them like that.  

I know a lot of swimmers with bad shoulders.  All of them have had excellent technique for years, but almost all of them changed their strokes for the better (i.e. they became faster, not just less injured) after being forced to rethink what they were doing due to shoulder pain.  

I also think every one of them would tell you that if you "just keep at it" when you're already getting aches, you'll get worse.  

Some people can go forever pain-free with awful technique, and others with great technique will still get injured, but technique is still the place to start for shoulders because they are so complex.  

Beaglebuddy, doing anything with a team can also be more potentially injurious than doing individual things.  You're not in charge of your own pace/effort, and you can get caught up in the team spirit.  So you end up not backing off when you otherwise would if you were on your own. 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:04:27 PM by pdxmike »

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 01:26:26 AM »
  You're not in charge of your own pace/effort, and you can get caught up in the team spirit.  So you end up not backing off when you otherwise would if you were on your own. 

Man is that ever the truth, anyone here who thinks they are a strong SUP paddler needs to try OC6, I never believed it was possible that I could paddle at that repetition for that length of time, continuously.
CMC, I will try to analyze what you have said regarding the elbow position in reference to the shoulders, can you elaborate further?
 It seems that I have a different situation compared to the other paddlers because I am 6'5 1/2" tall, the constant chant is reach! reach! but I'm already making a longer stroke than everyone else which means I need to be that much quicker.
I like to paddle a 54" but when everyone else is using sub 50" it presents a problem keeping up the pace, I've been using a 52" but my posture is more bent over. If they'd just let me paddle #1 everyone would just have to keep pace with me, problem solved.

surferkarl

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2011, 04:20:51 PM »
Also note that back (shoulder blade) pain can translate to shoulder pain.  At 51 I try to think "keep elbows in close" as much as possible.  The farther away your elbows are from your body the more likely you are to damage the shoulder and back with repetive motions.  This translates into everyday things too besides SUP.  Keep elbows in as close to your torso as you can. :)

surfcowboy

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4929
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2011, 09:13:06 PM »
Amen to the elbows in. I've got a sore left shoulder and I'm slowly getting it to stretch.

From what I hear tons of men over 40 have shoulder trouble. Thanks for that tip, it makes so much sense.

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2011, 12:06:28 AM »
keep the elbows in, got it, will try this Tuesday

surferkarl

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 88
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 12:16:26 PM »
The thing about SUP is your elbows are going to be some distance from your torso...no getting around it.  But the closer the better.  :)

CMC

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2011, 08:02:50 PM »
Hey Beagle, sorry for the delay in getting back to this post.

With regards to the elbow position.  The below relates to the top arm.  The bottom arm is with dropped shoulder and straight arm.  Efficient paddling requires both arms working together.  The tricky thing is that they do different things.  It's a bit like rubbing your belly and patting your head.  Tricky at first.  Many people pull well but have no downwards strength meaning all of the effort is on the pull.  When you get both arms working together as I said above you go twice as fast with half the effort and use your whole body to paddle rather than half of it.

A good thing to do yourself to feel the best position for your top elbow and shoulder is to place your hand on your friends shoulder.  Push downwards, let your friend tell you where the strongest downwards position is.  You will find that it is with your elbow pointing downwards on about a 30 degree angle shoulder down and relaxed and shoulders kept square.  This position that allows you to push downwards on your friends shoulder is that way as you engage your lat and back.  These are big muscles far more suited to the job of long distance heavy work than your shoulder muscles.

The elbow relates to the shoulder as to rotate your shoulder out of its relaxed and down position you need to point your shoulder upwards.  To paddle strong and long you need to relax your shoulders and engage all of your big muscles.

You need to reach obviously but it is counter productive to reach in a way that disengages your body from its strongest position at the catch.  In the 6 man at a high rating you pretty much only get the catch, power off and paddle out by the hip so its important to make the catch count the most.  I also find that by focussing on your top hand movement to create a continuous almond shaped arc allows you to use any movement upwards with the recovery to flow directly downward around the top of the almond, into the catch and then the next stroke.

I hope any of this makes sense, and I am no pro paddler by any means but working on the things above has helped me no end.  I hope they help you in some way.

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2011, 01:25:43 AM »
I think you are saying tuck the top elbow in a bit instead of flying out the side in order to get more downward pressure with the top hand.
Keeping the top elbow at about 30 degrees to the horizon.

CMC

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2011, 12:43:36 PM »
I think you are saying tuck the top elbow in a bit instead of flying out the side in order to get more downward pressure with the top hand.
Keeping the top elbow at about 30 degrees to the horizon.

Yep, I guess I dragged that out a bit.

And keep your shoulders down and relaxed.

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »
Practiced Tuesday, and I can say that the advice seems to help.
Kept the shoulders shrugged down and kept the top elbow down and in.
Keeping the elbow down and in seemed to help incorporate the top hand more so I wasn't just pulling with the bottom hand. I was able to concentrate more on twisting the torso and pulling with the whole body.
When the shoulders would shrug up a bit I could feel the shoulder pain re-appear.
I think with a longer paddle I could sit more upright and push the shoulders back as well.

This new technique  seems to incorporate different muscles so now I'm sore in different places.

beaglebuddy

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 12:04:30 AM »
Well I took about a month off from all paddling because I was really scared about the shoulder pain and concerned I wouldn't be able to surf this winter.
I got back on the SUP the last few days and all is well, no shoulder pain.
I think the 6 man practices were just too much too soon, If I decide to get back into the 6 man I will definitely get into it slower this time.
For now it's just gonna be Sup and one man, the problem with 6 man seems to be one cannot slow down or stop when one starts to wear down, one has to keep up with the rest of the crew.

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: OC6 shoulder ache
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 08:31:21 AM »
Hell, if I didn't hurt I'd assume I was dead. But technique and paddle design have a lot to do with shoulder pain. I'd start by looking at your paddle--does it have dihedral on the power face? If it's completely flat then it's going to wobble some, and your shoulders and lower arm are going to have to resist that. Knowing what I know now, if I was experiencing new pain, and I was paddling in a team, I'd be willing to give up a fair amount of catch to eliminate wobble.

We will eventually do an OC paddle the same geeky way we're doing our SUP paddle--measure everything and eliminate as much of what seems to be the bad stuff as we can. I suspect a lot of the cure is going to be similar. Compound blade angles to keep a major part of the blade vertical throughout the power section of the stroke, soft dihedral and concave sections to slow the flow off the blade, curved back for lift and to break the vortex. Very stiff blade edges to eliminate buzz and flutter.

We'll probably do that sooner rather than later since I want one for Maui when I get back to my OC1--how's THAT for a selfish reason! We're thinking one-piece design (expensive because we'd need separate molds for every length) with both straight and bent shafts. Or an internal ferrule like the Ke Nalu SUP blades (lot more rational but not as pretty), either of which would be nice for grip and great for strength/weight.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal