Brian Syzmanski must be an evil genius

[PT Woody]

Let us know what other aesthetics offend you Paul. We could also ban displacement hulls because they're not surfboard like. Maybe restrict all race boards to 9' maximum. And make everyone race with a thruster fin set up.

[robon]

Agreed Woody. I didn't like the appearance of my SB at first and it is somewhat boat like, but I will never go back to a standard surfboard/planing design for distance paddling again. Function beats appearance and I don't buy into the purity debate regarding SUP. If you are standing, and it was designed to be stood on, then it's an SUP. The great thing about this sport is evolution. There are many new designs and things are changing rapidly. If you don't like a design, then you don't have to paddle it.

[robon]

Sure was throwing lots of bow wake.  Every stroke it seemed the bow would drop just a hair and drive down into the water throwing the spray.  Can't be doing nothing but slowing down.

For pure speed on the flat water I'm not buying into the bow design.  Too much volume and nose rocker.  In the 14' and 12'6" classes every inch of waterline on the correct design translates into speed.  This board has about 12" of nose not even in the water.  As far as marine design goes that's a disadvantage, no way around it.

What many people who have tried the new Race series by Starboard tend to agree on is how well the bow design performs in ALL conditions. Not just dead calm flat water. This design seems to be pretty good in flat water, but comes into it's own in windy conditions and chop. I also find it interesting that there are now a few people who have done timed runs with several other boards considered to be very fast, and the SB is edging them out in timed runs. The whole is the sum of the parts and everything seems to work well together with these new boards.

[greatdane]

I got to paddle a 14' X 23" SB Ace last night... no GPS but felt fast.  (and at 190 pounds my feet were right at waterline, not below)  The 23" wide board felt as stable as most 25-26" wide boards.  The people I know who own them all agree they are a bear to paddle up wind or side wind... but that pays off when you point down wind.  Unfortunately it seems I paddle up wind more than I do down, so this design might not suit my conditions.

[Easy Rider]

^^^ You're just upset cause a girl almost beat you on one!   



I did a 42.1 km paddle on Sunday on my 14' ACE - it handled everything perfectly - even the up wind sections.   
I know I would not have gone as fast on any of the other boards I have ever tried / owned / demoed. 

[Takeo]

I have a 14" Open Ocean carbon model.  Only paddled it a couple times.  I have noticed that with the increased rocker, into the wind and chop is slower than other boards like the Bullet, Dominator, or Competitor.  The board is really stable though and in all fairness, I'm still learning the sweet spot and may have been a bit too far back, time will tell. 

Turning around and paddling with in a gentle 0-5 mph breeze with small chop, the board paddles really well! Keeping a 5.3 mph pace was no problem with max speeds around 5.9.  I can only imagine how much faster this board will be with stronger winds and better downwind swell.  The Open Ocean is no flatwater race board so comaparing it to the Dominator and Competitor is not really fair but like others have been saying, although the boards don't look functional, they actually are. 

[greatdane]

^^^ You're just upset cause a girl almost beat you on one!   
 

Damn right!  That was too close!  Sure shows what a difference between 29" wide and 23" wide can make... plus she is wicked-fast.

[refthimos]

So when is Brian going to shape a board that has both the sunken deck as well as a piercing bow (like a Bark, Rogue or others like them)?

[PauHanaTX]

Robon - It has nothing to do with purity, and your statement that if you can stand on it and it was designed so then it's a SUP is complete bunk.  I can make a canoe to stand in, is it a SUP?  I can make a racing scull to stand in it, is it a SUP?  Not buying it.

All I'm saying is that this trend (deep footwells and speed) will only end in one logical place.....standing in a racing scull hull shell.

You might can call it Stand Up Paddling, but it's not a Stand Up Board.

It's the "board" that set us apart, not the "boat."

I'd put money that your feet are below the waterline.  On my 5" thick 14'er with a slightly shaved down standing area my feet are probably 2" above the waterline, the deep footwells of the Starboards got to be below the waterline.

[refthimos]

All I'm saying is that this trend (deep footwells and speed) will only end in one logical place.....standing in a racing scull hull shell.

Is that really true though? What happens when some chop comes over the side and fills up the hull?  Will scuppers allow it to drain fast enough?  Doubt it, if we're thinking of the same hull shape.  And what if you fall off the thing and it fills up with water?

All I know is while I don't own one and haven't even ridden one, those Starboard boards still look like "boards" to me...

[PauHanaTX]

I'm talking pure speed in the flat water conditions when there is little chance for chop.  No scuppers even needed (racing sculls don't have scuppers), and you don't fall off, which I don't see the good guys doing much of.

When there's big enough footwells to sit in, it's a boat/canoe to me.  You just happen to be standing.

There's got to be design limits.  It's getting too loose in regards for racing.  Look what happened in the America's Cup years back, for a while all the boats were the same, then someone figured out there wasn't a strict length or hull criteria and giant catamerans showed up and a few 100' long sailboats.  It got out of control and they tightened everything up to make it more "apples-to-apples."  This whole deepwell thing is starting to get "apples-to-oranges."  SUP-to-SUC (stand up canoes).

I gave up canoeing years ago, ain't going back.

[refthimos]

When there's big enough footwells to sit in, it's a boat/canoe to me.  You just happen to be standing.
...
This whole deepwell thing is starting to get "apples-to-oranges."  SUP-to-SUC (stand up canoes).

I'm pretty sure if someone showed up in a racing scull at a SUP race they would be denied entry. 

Maybe these designs will progress so much that clear lines need to be drawn, but to my eye at least, the Starboard looks like a SUP.

I sorta feel the same way towards the SUP/canoe distinction as Supreme Court Justice Potter did with obscenity: "I know it when I see it."

[PauHanaTX]

Almost every SUP race has denied the catameran SUP's and still do.

It's designed to stand up paddle, why have multi hulls been denied? 

So you draw the line there?  Look at every racing class be it sailing, canoes, sculls, OC1, waveskis, they have very tight regulations leaving the craft looking very similar.  Stand Up Canoes (starboards) are a very different type of vessel than the SUP (Barks) and the differences are getting further and further apart and will only continue to do so.

My gymnast wife (and SUP'er) just said, yeah, the balance beam would be cool if it was 8" wide, girls would be doing double back flips, but gymnastic meets don't allow teams to show up with their 8" wide beams, sorry it's 4".  The reason is to keep it "apples-to-apples."

Limits must be set as this sport progresses.  We've said no to multi-hulls, why not no to SUP canoes?

[JonathanC]

Hey PauHanaTX, don't know why you have assumed we all want to race or that there is some overall controlling SUP 'boss'. Personally, I get a kick out of seeing what designers come up with and love to try out the latest and greatest. Do you think this sport would even exist if it wasn't for people being prepared to think outside the box, maybe look a bit silly but just try new things anyway.

You said

"I'm hoping that SUP will establish a rule banning any part of the body to be below the waterline."

Who on earth is "SUP"

The great thing about a young growing sport is that innovation and competition from manufacturers is rife, why strangle something that isn't even out of diapers yet. Multi hulls are fine by me...

[pdxmike]

As board design evolves, it's conceivable there may need to be some new restrictions, categories, etc.--for racing only. 

Otherwise, the more variety the better.  I loved seeing the new weird Puma board.  I'd like to see 100 people on the water on 100 different types of boards.   I'd like to see SoCalSupper's SUP-4s become common, and even SUP-6s and 8s.  I'd like to see people paddling stuff that totally defies classification.  There are already combination board/kayaks, that you can paddle seated or standing, with convertible paddles. 

In the meantime I really admire the Syzmanski design.  Weird ideas are how progress happens.