Messages

16

The Shape Shack / Board Thickness Effect

« on: January 21, 2021, 12:16:53 PM »

I am thinking about shaping another paddle board and wanted to get a better understanding of the impact that board thickness has on surfing.

My current understanding is it will impact the rails as the thicker the board the thicker the rail.  You can somewhat combat this by thinning the rails out or doing a domed deck.  But I feel like I'm missing something.

My question that I'm struggling with is 2 part.
1.  What would the difference in surfing be if you took the exact same dimension for a board (length 8', width 28", same rocker, etc) and built one 3.5" thick and another 4.5" thick?
2.  What would the difference be if you took a board 8' x 28" x 3.5" at 95 liters and you built another at 8' x 26" x 4.5 at 95 liters?  Now the board is 2" narrower but thicker to make up for it.  26" would be less stable, would it turn better, or would it be too thick?

Just looking for a better understanding on this.

17

Gear Talk / Re: Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: September 07, 2020, 09:21:36 AM »

SUPJorge - Thanks appreciate the feedback.  Glad I finally got around to doing it.  My height is 6'2" and I currently weight 175lbs.  Yes my weight does fluctuate but it's fairly predictable each year 170-175lbs in the summer and 175-185lbs in the winter, plus you add a wetsuit.  It will be interesting to see what my small board does with the added winter weight and wetsuit.

sflinux - Thanks I'm glad you enjoyed the video.  I'm 6'2" - 175lbs.  Thanks so much for breaking out my progression by guild factor, I totally forgot about that!  It's neat to see the drops along the way.  You have a very impressive progression for just the past year yourself!  Quite the board selection, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the different boards you went through.  While Guild Factor is an interesting data point and shows progression, you also want to make sure to consider board shape, which has so much impact on how stable a board is and what it will do.  Wider boards vs skinny boards with the same guild factor can be drastically different.  I recall someone telling me width of the last 12" on a board defines how well it will turn.  It went something like this, take a measurement of board width at 12" off the tail, anything under 18" wide would be performance turns, anything over 18" wide would be more drawn out.  Obviously that is a over simplification and doesn't consider fin choice, but I've found it to be true in a lot of my boards.  So applying that to the last 3 boards in my progression
Lokahi 8'4" x 28 - Width at 12" off tail  - 17.5"
Brusurf 8'0 x 27 - Width at 12" off tail - 18.5"
Custom 7'0 x 27 - Width at 12" off tail - 16"
I've also found board length to be important when dealing with chop, when I start dropping below 8' I have to compete with side to side and front to back balance, where as a bigger board say 8'5 I don't have to deal with the front to back balance.  This happens regardless of board volume or width, it just seems to be based on board length.  Just thought I'd give you some other data points to consider if you haven't already done so.
Colin McPhillips has the right idea, in that any day it's not clean or sluggish waves I'll jump on my 9 or 10' board and just have fun.  Back to basics can help in progression too.
Mo Freitas is an animal on SUP's and someone who I love watching.  He makes it look easy on those tiny boards and takes on barrels and massive waves like it's nothing!

liv2surf - Thanks for the feedback.  Yes progression requires everything you mentioned and it's easy to get stuck along the way.  I've done some foiling and that is amazing as well!  It's hard not to get distracted sometimes!  It helps me to treat SUP surfing like an exercise program, it doesn't matter what board ride just try to get out and paddle every day.

18

Gear Talk / Re: Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: August 31, 2020, 05:02:44 PM »

JustSomeGuy
Awesome.  I didn't mention it in the video due to time, but I have a 12'6" kompressor race SUP that I use when the surf is flat on the Inter Coastal as well.  I took it out surfing a few times but man you gotta keep that pointy nose out of the water or it throws you off    I haven't tried it any further offshore do you do any downwinding with it?  I never got into that but always looked fun.  At any rate glad to know another guy from Central Florida that enjoys paddle boarding as much as I do.  If you're ever up near cocoa beach look me up maybe we could do a session together!

19

Gear Talk / Re: Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: August 30, 2020, 04:55:24 PM »

Rick.  Thanks appreciate the feedback. 

It was difficult remembering all the feelings of each board and memories change as you move on but I tried 

I'm kinda glad Sean Poynter made that call makes me feel a little more sane for not wanting to go that low volume too.  His surfing is top notch and he is someone that makes me aspire to improve my form and technique. 

I also wanted to say thank you!  You've been a true inspiration for me on my journey and actually the inspiration I needed to make this video.  I always enjoy watching your videos and posts and they've helped keep me going over the years.  I saw your recent video where you were discussing all your Sunova boards and thought what the heck I should take a stab at it too.  There were times in my progression where I would stop and be afraid to take another step and you'd have a video or a post and already be out there doing it!  That motivated me to at least give it a shot and keep stepping down.  Your surfing is great and I wanted to let you know that you inspire a lot more people than you think with everything you do.  SUP Surfing is a niche sport and there isn't a lot of guys out there posting reviews or discussing tips and techniques like you do.  Keep up the great work and hoping to get a session in with you soon!

20

Gear Talk / Re: Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: August 30, 2020, 12:07:23 PM »

TallDude.  Thanks for the feedback I like hearing how you took it a step further and had a board so low liters that you just had the nose out.  I'm wary of that but always interested in how others handled it, I think I wouldn't like it too much like you.  My L41 was great and I do need to give it another chance.  At 130 liters an 8'4x31" it was too much board for me from the start.  I need to give them another try now that I've stopped downsizing so rapidly.  Age curve is another important factor that I didn't mention.  I did most of this progression in the last 3 years so for me from 33-36 years old. 

The other piece I wanted to touch on was how quickly you lose your edge if you don't keep riding a board.  This summer we had no waves for about 1 month and I bought a 9'6 Gerry Lopez so I was getting that dialed in.  Going back to my 95 liter board after 1 month was like starting all over again.  I got my balance back after about 30-60 min but I could only imagine what 6 months or a year of not riding would do, probably couldn't ride it for a few days!

21

Gear Talk / Re: Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: August 30, 2020, 06:09:21 AM »

PonoBill.
Great suggestion.  Now that l41’s are more popular I think I have a better chance renting a lower volume board and testing it out.  I still like that wide tail/ wide board feel paired with a more performance board of a similar size.  Appreciate the feedback.

22

Gear Talk / Board progression over my 12 years of paddle boarding

« on: August 29, 2020, 06:28:45 PM »

I decided to do a video to document my progression in paddle boards over my 12 years of paddle board surfing.



Here are my notes for those that would prefer to read.

Background. 
Started surfing at 15 on a fun shaped board. 
Progressed to a performance longboard. 
Never a good paddler. 
Lived in MA so only surfed 3-4 months a year
Low wave count and always struggled due to lack of waves
Mostly east coast gutless waves with no push.  When it did get big I didn’t have enough experience to even get out.
Stuck there for 6-7 years
Introduction to paddleboarding
Paddled out to a bunch of older guys on 9-10’ paddleboards and they were catching everything in sight.  Small waves, set waves, the boards moved so fast they could paddle left or right and catch a wave 200 yards away.  I was blown away, they could even do turns in the whitewater.
My First Board
First thing I did was rent a board to try it out.  It happened to be a 10’5 x 31 Starboard Drive.  At first I ditched the paddle and just prone paddled and it worked great.  The glide was amazing and early wave entry was so great, you could catch a wave that didn’t even break.  When I got confident I started to stand and use the paddle.  After 3 days of renting the paddleboard I was hooked and ready to buy.  I noticed my wave count went through the roof.  Before the paddleboard on a good day I would get maybe 5-10 waves, now I was getting 50+ wave in the same time.  Also the length of the ride drastically increased, instead of 5-10 second rides I was getting 15-30 second rides with time to turn and walk around to the nose/tail of the board.  With time to experiment I was able to start to learn how to surf.  I ended up purchasing a brand new Starboard Driver 10’5 and I was off.
Move to Florida
A few years passed and I decided to move to Florida.  We ended up moving to central florida but took trips to the east coast beaches.   I knew I wanted a paddle board so I started by renting again and discovered anything above 9’5” would not fit in the hotel we were staying in.  I needed something portable so I rented and purchased a Riviera Nugg 9’2 x 31.  This board has been the best board I’ve ever owned for east coast surfing.  Just all around a great shape and a do it all board.  Flat water, small waves, big waves, nose riding, performance manuevers it could do it all.  This board opened my eyes to the possibilities in SUP surfing.  If I could only have 1 board in my quiver it would be without a doubt a Riviera Nugg or a board shaped similar. 
The quest for performance and L41
After a few more years I decided it was time for an addition to the paddle board family and started looking into a L41 SimSup.  I heard great things and wanted to try one, but there were none at that point on the East coast.  So after some rave reviews and researching online I took the plunge and ordered a custom 8’4” x 31 – 130 Liters.  It was the best looking and highest quality build of a board I’ve ever owned.  When it finally arrived I was blown away.  My first test ride on it was on a lake and I floated me so well and was quite stable for the step down I took.  A wide nose and wide tail lend themselves to stability.  It still had some good glide as well.  When I got it out in the waves it was fantastic.  The quads really let you maneuver the board and do some serious turns.  The board would plane instantly and down the line speed was insane.  This board showed me the path forward in performance and what could be achieved on a SUP.  Prior to this I would do longboard pivot type turns, this board I was doing tail slides, hitting the lip, cutbacks.  Everything exploded it took me a solid 6 months before I had everything down.  The other lesson this board taught me was to get your foot back when you want to do a turn.  Not back a little, back as far as you can, back to the kick pad.  If you don’t you fight yourself.  I’ve spent many a day learning this lesson. 
Next Set of Boards
From here one thing changed that put my SUP progression into Hyperdrive.  We decided to move to the east coast and bought a house right on the beach.  Now instead of 3-4 trips a year, I could surf every day.  So from here I started to experiment with a variety of shapes and sizes picking boards up on craigslist for cheap usually 300-400 and would end up selling them for a similar amount.
8’0 x 30 – 120 Liter performance shape. This board showed me the path to a performance shortboard SUP shape and how to pump and start to do power turns where you throw spray.
7’4” x 31 – 130 Liter Holiday Custom.  This board was my favorite board for 2 years.  Fat and Wide with quads you could still get that instant speed on powerless waves and it allowed you to really snap a turn and have fun with it.  As soon as the waves got chest high though the board was too much for me, I couldn’t slow it down even with my foot over the tail.  But I had other boards for those days
8’4” x 28” – 105 Liter Lokahi. I found this board on craigslist for a steal and I wanted it cheap because I thought 100 liter boards would be impossible for me.  I was quite wrong the transition was pretty easy, sure I fell but the board more than floated me and had tons of glide.  In 1 week I had it wired where I could ride it in 15mph onshore chop, catch ankle high sets.  This board is where my performance took another step forward.  This board was a pro board through and through, sharp pulled in nose, razor thin pulled in tail, aggressive thruster setup.  This board was meant for speed and it needed a more powerful wave to really work well.  I still keep this board as sort of a gun on bigger days.  This board gave you feedback like no other board, if you pumped the board you could feel the speed generated.  If you wanted to turn it would turn as hard as you wanted.  I could turn it so hard you would lose the wave.  It was mind bending.
8’0” x 27 – 95 Liter brusurf.  Same as above I got a deal because I was still convinced sub 100 liter board was impossible.  This board had a less pulled in nose and swallow tail and ended up being just as stable as the lokahi.  However I did notice that I was starting to sink the board, not underwater but I was getting closer.  This board is an amazing board, this was my next step forward in progression.  With the side fins place up a little further on the board and an adjustable center fin I was able to loosen up the thruster setup and really get some performance turns.  On a big day I would have the center fin all the way back but on the smaller days just moving it 1” forward made a night and day difference and really let you perform.  The only place this board lacked was overhead waves, it was not quite pulled in enough and would get going too fast and out of control.  It also let me try out quads since it had a 5 fin box setup, and made me conclude that quads were not for me when it came to performance paddleboarding.  Perhaps a different configuration or a different board, but they were too loose and unpredictable rail to rail.
7’7 x 27 – 85 Liter Custom. Finally I decided it was time to try my hand a shaping a SUP.  I decided to take the plunge and bought all the shaping equipment and just did it.  I couldn’t find a cheap board and new boards ranged between 1500-2000 so I decided for 350 bucks I’d take a risk on shaping one myself. It didn’t come out perfect but I was more than satisfied with the result.  Naturally when it was completed we had no waves but I still took it out for a float test.  It floated me better than I expected, but my ankles were wet.  Stability was fine, it was noticeably less stable than my previous board but not significant enough that I couldn’t handle it.  When we finally did get some knee high surf I was pleasantly surprised with how well it did.  My friends couldn’t believe that I could still catch as many waves on it, and catch them just as far out as my previous boards.  Being lighter and more pulled in it turns on a dime.  It’s still a new board so I can’t wait to see how it does in bigger surf but so far so good.
Next Steps
I always keep an eye on the paddle boarding pro’s and I’ve been lucky enough to do SUP training sessions with Zane Schweitzer and Sean Poynter.  Having said that I think when you start to get onto a board that truly sinks down to your knees or hips and you need to paddle to bring it up, you start to lose a lot of what brought me to SUP surfing in the first place.  Early wave entry, glide, wave count, etc.  At that point I would think a surfboard would not only give you a lot less board to move around and provide more performance but also the ability to duck dive and get out easier.  I understand why the pro’s surf those low volume SUP’s to win contests.  But I’m not competing I’m out there for my own enjoyment.  Having said that I will probably keep pushing it until I do get an un-rideable board.  But the great thing is there are still tons of shapes and combinations to try in-between. 
Conclusion
I wanted to make this video to talk about my personal SUP progression and give some insight into why I made the decision to keep pushing my limits and going smaller.  The most important thing at the end of the day is that you’re out there surfing and having fun.  I surf with longboarders, shortboarders, kayakers you name it and as long as everyone’s having fun and catching lots of waves and that’s what it’s all about.  Getting out there an enjoying yourself on any type of craft you ride.

23

Technique / Re: getting back on the pad

« on: April 14, 2020, 05:35:51 AM »

I agree with SupSean.  Rick you have a great smooth confident style on waves.  Makes it fun to watch!

  I had the good fortune to do a SUP clinic with Sean Poynter 3
Years ago.  He showed me a bunch of things to up my game, but his SUP surfing is on a whole new level.  Talk about a power surfer.  I tried to ride his board and couldn’t even get on my knees.  Something like 7’2 x 24” around 76 liters.  But it was fun trying

I’ve found each session I have to keep reminding myself to get back on the pad.  Super helpful to have that different texture so you know you’ve made it.  Still can’t make it all the way back to the raised part at the end.  I also moved my center fin forward on my thruster setup I wonder once I get this pad technique down if I can move it back to its original position.

24

Technique / Re: getting back on the pad

« on: April 10, 2020, 05:46:19 AM »

SupSean - That’s a nice video serious foot work.  It’s just practice and timing keep reaching for the pad

Creek - thanks! You are really hitting the lip in your video!  the board is 8’ x 27 so it’s on the shorter side.  I agree board size makes a difference I have an 8’4 and It’s a little more difficult.  However to counter this I also had a 7’4” board I struggled to get back on as well.  I’ve found if I move my front foot back things go badly.  Nose pops up and I stall.  Keeping my front foot planted and stretching back feels weird at first but when you feel the difference it’s addicting.  Also I only do it when I want that extra snap.  Bottom turns and cutbacks. 

25

Technique / Re: getting back on the pad

« on: April 08, 2020, 06:57:25 PM »

I found after all this time the one thing I've struggled with the most is getting my foot back on the pad.  I always felt comfortable about 4" up from the pad.  Recently I decided to start to try to work back to the pad and man what a difference.  Night and day.  Before I had my foot right infront of where the pad started which was directly infront of my front fins.  After getting a feel for when I could put my foot back to the pad and getting used to my foot feeling for the different pad texture things started to turn on.  I found if I had mushy waves I couldn't get my foot back on the bottom turn.  Only steep drops or else I would stall out.  However when I worked up some speed down the line and wanted to hit the lip I could get it back there everytime.  I tried moving my front foot back but that caused the nose to pop up and the board to stall.  The way I had to do it was to just stretch my stance to get my back foot back an extra 6" (Keeping my front foot where it always is).  As soon as I did it my turns went from slow to snappy.  I managed to get out this weekend and took some stills and a quick video clip.  You can see my foot could still go back another 3-4" to hit the back of the tail pad so there's more to gain.  So much harder tuns and more spray!  If you aren't getting your foot back on the pad you are missing out on the capabilities of turning your SUP for sure.  Can't believe I've had to learn this lesson again.  Seems like every new board I get.

26

Technique / Re: Quad Issues on new board

« on: February 12, 2020, 03:55:26 PM »

MagentaWave/NightWing - I will have to try some twin fins I've never really experimented with it, I'm interested in what it would do.  That or as it was suggested large front/small back find with a nubster.  I have the fins just need the waves.

Okiwild - thank you for the pictures it makes it a lot easier to understand it.  I'm wondering since my board measures 18" wide at 12" from the tail that maybe being a narrower board I'm not experiencing my center fin sliding out?  I do not feel the board slide like how you describe in a hard turn, but I can see in the pics with your rail sunk the center fin has got to be 1/2 way out of the water.

I did a little more playing around with my thruster setup by moving the center fin slightly forward and found something surprising.  I had the center fin as far back in the fin box as it allowed me to go which was 7.75" from the tail.  I moved the fin up to 8.5" and I was able to turn (pivot) the board much easier.  The next session I moved it to 9" from the tail and again it was even easier to pivot.  I was even able to do a mini reverse on a turn when I really put my weight into it.  The one thing I noticed was less drive when pumping down the line.  Get one thing give up another.  What surprised me the most was how different my board reacted by moving the rear fin forward 1.25".  Really shows if I didn't have an adjustable fin box how different the same board with 2 fin placements could be.

I think on bigger days I might want to go back to having the fin all the way back again, but it's working great in the 2-3' waist high waves we've been getting in Florida.

Here's a video off the Surfline cam and a few GoPro pics of the day.  Nothing too exciting the waves were small.  Had to include my wipeout!

27

Technique / Re: Quad Issues on new board

« on: January 28, 2020, 06:41:40 AM »

Appreciate all the feedback.  I find it interesting that almost everyone responding seems to prefer some sort of a quad fin setup and there isn’t much love for the thruster.  Obviously there is something to this and it looks like I need to keep on tweaking until I find that magic combination.  I did a few lessons with 2 of the starboard pro’s Zane Schweitzer and Sean Poynter and they both preferred thrusters for predictability and drive.  Having said that I’m nowhere near a pro nor do I have a prayer of doing any sort of airs or blowing the fins out on a turn.   So quad may be the choice it just wasn’t as simple as throwing some stock fins in and surfing.  Looks like I need another session where I have all the fin combos and keep swapping them until something clicks.

Night Wing - Yes I agree I need to play around with a nubster rear fin.  There was something I truly enjoyed about quads I just couldn’t get it dialed in so this may be the missing piece.  I think I’ve avoided adding a nubster from fear of ‘over finning’ with 5 fins in the water.  But looking at how small it is it’s worth a shot.

OkiWild - The pic is a little deceiving my rear quad boxes are about 1.5” further up towards the nose than my center box, but looking at your boards the rear quad boxes appear to be half way or more up the center fin box.  I know how to glass so I may look into moving the quad rear fin boxes up on the board to loosen things up.  I’ll have to do some investigation and get measurements prior to that project. 
I’ve never even heard of a mink systems diffuses those look pretty wild thanks for sharing that. 
One question back to you about the board corking out with a thruster, do you mean like actually blowing the fins out in a slide?  Are you blowing them out at the top of the wave?  I have yet to be able to do that no matter how hard I push the board.

Magnetawave - My friend has a starboard hyper nut and went to the twin fin and loves it.  I’ve never even attempted twin fins mostly out of fear of spinning out.  Looks like I’ve got to at least try it but need to go with some XL front fins.  My mind can’t fully process surfing with one fin in the heel side fin box and not on the other side, but it makes sense like how they build asymmetrical surfboards.

28

Technique / Re: Quad Issues on new board

« on: January 26, 2020, 04:41:58 PM »

Update.

I had my board out today in chest high waves and gave the quads another go.  I could turn a bit better and continue to get better each day I have them in.  As the tide dropped I went in for lunch and decided to switch back to thruster for another session. 

This was the first day I was able to try quad and thruster setups back to back, same swell same wave.  The first wave on the thruster and I knew I wasn't getting the performance I was looking for on the quads.  The thrusters had that immediate snap to turn the board.  On the first wave I turned so hard I dumped myself off the board.  My turns were instantly sharper, I was able to really hit the lip and turn back down where as the quads I felt like I got hung up on top of the wave for a moment.  I was throwing more spray and I didn't realize how much I enjoyed pumping the board down the line.  It was like I turned the performance button on in the board.

My board does have a fairly narrow tail.  17.5" wide 12" up from the tail.  Also would be interested in quad fin box placement.  My measurements put my side fix boxes at 17" off the tail and 1.5" in from the rail.  My rear fin boxes are 7" off the tail and 1.5" off the rail.  Finally my center fin box is 7" off the tail.  Here are a few pics of the setup.  Been doing a little glassing had to reinforce the fin boxes.






I took the last pic to show the size of the rear quads I was using.  I never ran it with 5 fins in it.

I welcome some more quad fin suggestions as well as the possibility of a nubster.  I have a few nubsters kicking around I may try out.  It has been a fun experiment playing with different fins.  One I'd like to continue and keep learning from!  Appreciate all the feedback!

29

Technique / Re: Quad Issues on new board

« on: January 25, 2020, 03:04:29 PM »

Lol I’m not that bad with my fins.  6 fins should stiffen that board right up.  I had another session today and had fewer issues.  The waves were cleaner and allowed me to experiment more.  I didn’t have any lockup issues that could have been due to the peaky/ choppy waves yesterday. I did get worked over when I went up to the lip and the wave pitched over on me.  Went sideways and got thrown but that is probably more learning, keep my foot back and commit to the turn.  Each day with quad I’m more won over.  Speed and looseness are big benefits.  Thruster will always hold a place in my heart but I think I can maneuver and outrun fast sections better with quads.  Thanks for all the video help really helps understand the fin differences

30

Technique / Quad Issues on new board

« on: January 24, 2020, 05:25:00 PM »

I just got a new board with a 5 fin setup.  It's a 95 Liter Brusurf 8'0".  Smallest board yet for me I'm 180lbs 6'2". 
I have been surfing a thruster setup for the past year and started that way with this board, but decided to try quad today. 
For Quad fins I left in my 4.5" high standard G5 fins in front and put in smaller 3.5" trailing fins. 
The grip felt good no sliding, bottom turns were good.  I had to focus on keeping my rear foot over the tail pad.  However once in a while I would get going too fast and I would feel like the board would lock up and I couldn't turn it.  I'd miss the section where I wanted to turn and have to wait for the board to slow down to become unlocked.  It was a strange feeling but during those moments I felt like I could only hang on and wait it out.  Anyone else experience that or know what to do?  My only thought to solve it was I need my foot back further to control it.  Could it also be I have all 4 fins in the water at the same time where normally I only have 2 fins engaged on a turn? 

Here's a poor quality video of me on a SurfLine cam so you can see I can turn the board with quads just fine most of the time.