Messages

376

Environment / Wind Power

« on: August 05, 2007, 05:48:42 AM »

So much environmental activity seems to offer little in the way of feel-good tangible results.  You know it's helping, but you really cannot see it.  Well, along comes modern wind power.  Maui erected a small grouping of turbines http://www.heco.com/vcmcontent/Corporate%20Communications/Consumer%20Lines/0607_meco.pdf on the West side of the Isthmus and it was producing almost 10% of our energy in it's first month.  This upcoming year, a second farm will go up in Ulupalukua that when complete will bring us up to 20%.  4 other wind projects are proposed, that could bring Maui to over 50% !!!

That is without Solar, without wave energy, etc.

On the topic of wave energy capture check out these guys http://www.oceanpowertechnologies.com/tech.htm#  which have been succesfully used here in HI. 

Even so, the state goal is only a 20% reduction in conventional energy inependence by 2020.  C'mon...C'mon

377

SUP General / Fun first-timer footage

« on: August 05, 2007, 04:55:47 AM »

C4 posted a new funny little clip on their site.

http://www.standupzone.com/videolinks.htm

378

SUP General / Re: Stand up vs. lay down

« on: August 04, 2007, 06:19:46 AM »

Dear iwantabe,  I'm sorry I mean iwaterman,

We don't do that here.  This is an intelligent and caring community and ad hominem comments will not be allowed.

I sincerely believe that you have been extended more courtesy than might reasonably be expected, considering the fact that you appoached us from a position of deception, and followed with a stated desire for segregation at our expense.

I am excited that at least one response was acurate.  SDS.  I think.

In logic, one is supposed to shoot down the argument of the shill with haste, so here goes:  Complimenting SDS on his opinion, is tantamount to saying, "I agree with me."

In part, this forum serves to educate people on how to happily coexist in the surf.  I genuinely believe in the ideal that you are better to listen to what those with alternate opinions are saying, and trying to work with them. 

In that vein, I asked, "If everyone were obeying the rules of human courtesy and had taken the time to become accomplished with their respective gear, would you still advocate a segregated lineup?"

It had been your opinion that harmony in the lineup was impossible.

I asked, because if a harmonious, mixed lineup was indeed a goal you wanted to work towards, I would certainly do my part in joining with you to achieve it.

But responses such as, "Stay out of the surf pack." and "If it is not controlled, the SUS/SUP will be run out of the breaks." are not helpful. 

We will all be seeing each other in the lineup for a long time, so I would try to redirect to where this began. 

Let's work on both sides (if there are two sides) to teach respect through positive communication.

PS:

from your post:

Then the next reply by someone else  compared SUP with Hula and  the Hawaiian Tradition thing?  Is Lay Down surfing not a Hawaiian Tradition?  C'mon.

A direct answer.  Laydown surfing is a hawaiian tradition.  No one that I am aware of is trying to exclude laydown surfers from any lineup.

379

SUP General / Re: Stand up vs. lay down

« on: August 03, 2007, 03:34:45 PM »

"We've got a pool and a pond. The pond would be good for you. "

-Caddyshack

Thanks for offering us the pond SDS.  Great sharing.  Truth be it known, we do often use remote breaks.  Why? Because at times (when they are working) they are great fun, and we love an uncrowded session as much as the next surfer.  At those times, the lineups will be less full than they otherwise would be. 

The reason the breaks you are referring to are popular, is that they are feel-good waves.  Easy in's, open shoulders, makeable sections.  Fun.  Offering up the mushcrumbler next door is a negligable concession, and using mobility as an arguement is erroneous.  You could paddle to these waves in 10 strokes, but never will.

Windsurfers cant go out till after 11 am, Tow-in surfing is supposed to avoid breaks where surfers are.

Stand up surfing is a traditional Hawaiian activity, as is Hula and Lei making.  As I am sure you will recall, the reason windsurfing has a 11:00 begin time was to protect the traditional Hawaiian activity of fishing.

So go explore!!  there are plenty of other waves out there!!!

We do.  That advice is open to anyone, on any board.  There are tons of unused waves just 20 yards from shore, and good parking.

We have a wall being erected on the Mexican border, another in Israel, and the Maui/Cali come lately woman in line in front of me at the Fish Market last night was boasting about her "exclusive gated community" on our North Shore.  Excluding who?  Me?  There are includers and excluders, simple as that.  A line in the water at San Onofre?  Want a link to a California real estate agency?

Stand Up paddling is a Hawaiian sport, being practiced by people of all ethnicities who have been drawn here, and to it, by an appreciation for the Hawaiian culture. 

380

Gear Talk / Your next board-Poll

« on: August 03, 2007, 08:52:17 AM »

Let's see what type of boards users are interested in.

Notes: You will need to be logged in to vote.  Poll is set for one vote per user.

381

SUP General / Re: Stand up vs. lay down

« on: August 02, 2007, 07:40:45 AM »

More interesting thoughts.

Although as a newcomber to the Stand Up and a very longtime surfer and windsurfer I must say I feel for the lay down surfer who is at a disadvantage.

 

No one is at a disadvantage, if no one is taking advantage.  This is true regardless of equipment choice.  A skilled longboarder can dominate a surf lineup, swimming laps around shortboarders and less skilled longboarders.  If they do, it is a personal choice, not a function of fiberglass dimensions.    If you see a Stand Up paddler, longboarder, kiter etc.  taking more than their fair share, I would suggest speaking with them.  The more constructive the conversation, the better.

I would like to think we could all live in perfect harmony but lets be real.

 

I think that as Stand Up paddlers it is imperative that we not be defeatest on this issue.  We can have harmony in the lineup.

The written so called laws of SUP's on this website are NOT being followed by SUP's.  The SUP's are aggressive.

I must call you here on the logical fallacy of inappropriate generalization.

I would ask, "as a Stand Up Paddler, are you aggresive in the lineup?".  Stand up paddlers are no less individuals than surfers, Newport residents, or postal workers.  As noted many times in this thread, most stand up paddler surfers are also still active laydown surfers.  Regardless of the sport, each of them will bring a unique behavior set to the lineup.

Many of the SUP riders are not long time surfers and some may have never surfed at all.  Without knowledge of waves and control of the boards it could be dangerous.  That is why I suggest designated area's for STAND UP PADDLERS.

These are two seperate issues. 

The first is: should beginner Stand Up Paddlers, or those who can not control their gear be in the lineup endangering others?  The answer is a resounding no.  This also holds true for the laydown surfer who paddles out in conditions beyond their ability level.  Again, positive communication is the appropriate answer here.

The second is a trickier issue.  Reversing the logic of the above quote, If Stand Up Paddlers are skilled in the surf, do understand the lineup, and are in control of their gear, then a mixed lineup is appropriate. 

I might ask this question:  If everyone were obeying the rules of human courtesy and had taken the time to become accomplished with their respective gear, would you still advocate a segregated lineup?

382

Events / China Competition

« on: August 01, 2007, 04:26:47 PM »

I understand that Standup Zone member Kimo808 (Maui standout) finished in the top 6, and that the conditions were outstanding.  Calling on our Oahu friends to fill us in on the rest of the results.

Congrats to Kimo and the other contestants!

383

SUP General / Re: Stand Up RSS Feeds

« on: August 01, 2007, 08:28:54 AM »

Great list that you put together!

These Ajax based desktop style programs are pretty amazing, and are very helpful.

Here is a list I grabbed.  I have used only a few, also favoring netvibes.

Eskobo
favoor
Google
Goowy
Microsoft Live
Netvibes
Pageflakes
Protopage
Zoozio

One note:  Some of these allow outside developer "modules" or similar, which pose a security risk.  No problem if you are just news viewing, but consider not using email on those that offer it, or storing any info on notes, etc that you would not readily share.

384

SUP General / Re: Stand up vs. lay down

« on: August 01, 2007, 05:39:49 AM »

Hi Soul Surf,

These are important questions.  I posted this a few days back:

Scrappy's, Taint's and Leftover's

I find myself surfing breaks with the worst names these days.  Yesterday, I padlled in decent south shore waves for almost 5 hours.  About an hour and a half in breaks with better names, and ample crowds; the rest of the time on my own or with one or two other stand up paddlers.  In the morning (ultra low tide) Taint's was waist to shoulder, windless, and completely empty.  I rode 20 plus waves before Chan paddled over, and then many more together.  We were joking in our best John Oliver impersonations, "no you take this one, I insist".  Too sweet!

The thread started here http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=57.0 and there were many responses that express some of the joys of private Stand Up sessions.

For those times when you are at a break with prone surfers, I really think that Blane http://www.paddlesurfhawaii.com/default.asp?doctype=mm&C_ID=129 nailed it:

3. You start to get the hang of it and want to surf better waves so you decide to surf a more popular spot.    You paddle out and stand outside everyone.   The sets come and you paddle in like a locomotive right thru the pack.   You get waves in every set... KOOK!!   

4. You start to get the hang of it and want to surf better waves so you decide to surf a more popular spot.   You paddle out and check out the situation.   You see waves off to the side that a lot less people go for.   You catch a few of those...  Since you don't want to wear out your welcome, you decide to catch only a few set waves at most.     You surf with Aloha.... Kool!

385

SUP General / Re: Rules for Stand Up

« on: July 31, 2007, 04:22:35 PM »

Hi Soul Surfer,

Good question, and yes (not quite a book, but an online version).

http://www.paddlesurfhawaii.com/default.asp?doctype=mm&C_ID=129

This article by Blane Chambers may be the gold standard for Stand Up ettiquette.

On Maui, the major shops all rent Stand Up Gear, but often without instruction or a good location suggestion.  Finding a spot that is both shelterred from the wind, and free from any surf will be the first order of business.  Cove park in Kihei is a good bet in November. 

I hope that is helpful.

Randy

386

Gear Talk / Re: Calculating SUB dimensions for paddler's weight

« on: July 30, 2007, 06:54:37 PM »

Hi Pehea oe,

I looked up the meaning as soon as I saw you register.  Very cool!

I have two boards now that I love.  LOVE.  They seem quite similar on paper, but feel completely different.  One is a production Blane Chambers, 9'2 x 27 x 4.25, the other is a custom Kazuma (Matt Kinoshita) 9'4 x 27.5 by 4 1/8.  Both have completely flat bottoms for the first 2/3 of the board.  On the rear 1/3, the BC graduates into a vee with double concave, and the Kazuma has a very subtle vee without concave.  Before these, I had a board that was wider (28.5), but had vee from the tail 2/3 of the way to the nose.

Now this is purely my opinion, but I find that flat boards underfoot are noticably more stable than boards with vee underfoot (even a little), and allow you to go narrower while maintaining a reasonable amount of stability (I still retain the right to fall over with no apparent reason).  Also I believe that when you intially swing the nose around, vee that extends to far forward drags. 

Best,
Randy

387

Technique / Re: How do you turn?

« on: July 30, 2007, 05:12:24 PM »

I've got a few on the step turn. 

Before you start, move your feet to parallel (facing forward) on the central balance point of your board and  take one or two strong forward strokes.  This stabilizes the board.  Then you will simultaneously do two things:

1. twist what will become your front foot leaving the heel where it is but bringing your toes around onto the stringer. 
2. drop you back foot back a bit (how much will depend on the board) and slightly onto the side that you will take your strokes on.  This will lift the opposite rail so it does not snag when the board starts to spin.

Now weight the back foot and crouch a bit to keep your center of gravity low, and take a strong sweep stroke, and then another.  Be prepared to shift your weight back to centered, as the hardest part of this move is stopping.  Consider: once you have turned 180, you are still hunkered low on your rear foot with no forward movement to stabilize the board or to help right you.  Now fall (I couldn't resist).  Before your turn is complete reverse the initial foot/body twist.  Time your paddle strokes so that you can use the energy from the last stroke to initiate the switch and help push your balance back to centerred.

Now an opinion.  For most this is a very unreliable move.  About half the time I see riders trying it in the lineup, it ends in a fall.  This can shake the rider's confidence, but will definitely shake the confidence of the prone surfers nearby.  One paddler was trying it in the lineup today and some prone friends were (in a good natured way) calling it the "death spiral".  This is by no means a mandatory move.  More consistant for most will simply be inching back a bit and sweeping on one side.

I hope that adds to the dialogue.

Best,
Randy

388

Gear Talk / Re: Calculating SUB dimensions for paddler's weight

« on: July 30, 2007, 04:19:09 PM »

Hi there Yeti,

Sorry to pass on the sickness, I had no idea it was communicable.


Not a perfect match, but certainly of interest:  http://www.windance.com/info_source/assistant/gear_selector/boards/board_volume.htm

To venture a guess, I would think that you start getting near your minimum comfortable volume at something like:

clothed rider weight + board weight + paddle weight + 20 to 25 L = minimum volume (all in metric, of course). 

Granted, shape will have an enourmous impact on stability and usability.

389

Events / Re: Stand Up / OC1/2 Race Series in Australia

« on: July 30, 2007, 09:44:36 AM »

User NevOZ is in australia.  If you wish, do a forum search for Australia to find him. 

Please let us know how the event turns out.  We are a ways away, but are definitely interested in what is going on with the stand up community world wide.

Good luck!

390

SUP General / Re: A change of scene

« on: July 29, 2007, 10:20:13 AM »

Scrappy's, Taint's and Leftover's

I find myself surfing breaks with the worst names these days.  Yesterday, I padlled in decent south shore waves for almost 5 hours.  About an hour and a half in breaks with better names, and ample crowds; the rest of the time on my own or with one or two other stand up paddlers.  In the morning (ultra low tide) Taint's was waist to shoulder, windless, and completely empty.  I rode 20 plus waves before Chan paddled over, and then many more together.  We were joking in our best John Oliver impersonations, "no you take this one, I insist".  Too sweet!