Messages

3931

Gear Talk / Re: Naish 2013

« on: August 06, 2012, 10:28:22 AM »

Astonishing range of surf SUPs, they've really taken on board the need to cater for a wide range of riders and conditions. Full marks, A+

Shame they have not done this with the distance board range also. Over 12-6 they've mostly just added a elite-only models and constructions which are probably more of a marketing tool than are actually likely to be enjoyed by most real people in the real world (especially the ocean). In terms of additions, the range is crying out for, at least, the addition of a 14 x 29" ocean/big boy race/expedition/DW board, and a DW board to fill the gap between 14 and 18, as DJ says. Then they will have started to match the comprehensiveness of the SUP range in their distance boards. So it's a C for their distance range, which gets a "could have easily done better" comment from me.

We can but hope that someone is listening...

3932

SUP General / Re: An old video = new goals

« on: August 06, 2012, 09:01:38 AM »

set the bar for stupid.

Too harsh, Newton333.

If practice like this allows me to be one fraction as good as Patrice is in the surf, I don't mind looking stupid doing it... I remember him coming to my local beach around the time of this video. The surf went flat. It was like literally 6 inches, and I'm not talking Hawaiian, I'm talking barely covering your ankle bone. You needed a spirit level to detect the waves. We were obviously worried that he wouldn't be able to show us his surfing prowess, about which we had heard so much. But it didn't phase him at all, and he completely blew us away by doing moves like helicopters when most of us couldn't even get on the wave. In small surf in particular he must be one of best SUP surfers in the world.

Gong have never taken themselves too seriously, and make a lot of other brands look distinctly po-faced by comparison. They are high on innovation and fun. But that sometimes crazy façade belies a huge amount of skill. If you doubt it, try what he does in the video and see how you get on...

3933

Downwind and Racing / Re: SIC Sold

« on: August 02, 2012, 05:15:53 AM »

Celeste, I thought what was particularly interesting was your original motivation for creating this "character", and the similarities with the aim of Borat. Borat of course, is not poking fun at Kazakhstan at all, but is actually making fun of the ignorant and mean-minded people who fall for his stereotypes. You were doing a similar thing.

Pakistan is a very interesting country. It is the 6th most populous country in the world (out of something like 240 independent countries and territories), with about 180 million people, accounting for about 2.6% of the total world population. For comparison, the USA is the third most populous, with about 4.5%. Both of these of course are way behind China and India, which account for 19% and 17% of the total world population respectively. Nevertheless, one can see that Pakistan is a large country, and geographically it covers an area about the same as the UK and France added together. It is also a strikingly young population - over 100 million of its inhabitants are under the age of 30, and in the 20 years from 1990 to 2009 it increased its population by well over 50%. In many ways one can argue that these countries represent the future in world politics - the indigenous growth of USA and Europe has largely stopped. It would be nice to see the older countries (quite literally "older" since our populations are getting older) reach out to the younger ones rather than fall back on lazy stereotyping and so foster misunderstanding and hatred.

Borat of course caused a lot of controversy and the purpose of the film was widely misunderstood. It was a great risk that Baron-Cohen took.

Unfortunately, some of the USA politicians are not particularly inclined to serve their country folk well in respect of fostering understanding about foreign countries. At the moment in Europe we have some chap over here called Mitt Romney, who has graced us with his presence for some reason best known to himself. He came to London, site of the current Olympic Games and promptly announced that London was unfit to hold the Olympics. How charming of him. This gave the Mayor of London the opportunity to tell him in a very British way to sling his hook, and off Romney went with his tail between his legs, spouting apologies and retractions. The Major of London is widely regarded as a buffoon (indeed, it seems to be largely the secret of his success), so to make yourself look like an even bigger buffoon is quite a trick. Then Romney popped off to Israel to apparently tell them that the USA will be quite happy for them to nuke anyone they feels threatens them. I have no idea whether his position is actually that of the American people, but expressing it in the way he has done runs a huge risk of exacerbating what is of course a hugely delicate position in the Middle East - about which he seems to know very little. So, overall, unfortunately, his behaviour will reinforce the equally lazy stereotypes that some people have about people from the USA, and allow trouble-makers in these foreign countries to legitimise the use of the politics of fear - to the detriment of us all, including the USA who, just as we in Europe do, needs to keep trading routes open with these rapidly developing nations.

Right, that's got that out of my system. Back to SUP: I got my new Coreban Dart recently (full carbon), and its FAB, and well suited to conditions in the UK. I hope SIC also decide to try to develop DW boards more attuned to conditions outside those just found in Hawaii. Naish seem to be going down the flat water or elite-ocean paddlers only route with their latest super-narrow boards. The new SIC shapes (if that is what they are) spotted recently under the feet of Connor and DK might just be the thing... maybe...

3934

Downwind and Racing / Re: SIC Sold

« on: August 02, 2012, 01:29:09 AM »

Ah, Celeste..I thought that sounded familiar:

http://www.ax84.com/bbs/dm.php?thread=287856

The comment to your post in that thread about Borat is insightful.

3935

Downwind and Racing / Re: SIC Sold

« on: August 01, 2012, 03:31:40 AM »

Headmount, I'm sure that the term you meant to use was "Pakistanis". The term you used has the same status in many countries as the "N word". Place the N word in the sentence instead of the term you used, and imagine how offensive it might seem to some people. Of course, you didn't make the kindest comment in the world even if you had used an approved term, but at least it wouldn't be completely incendiary. However, I know that awareness of these matters is perhaps not as widespread in the USA as elsewhere so I'm sure that you meant no offence.

I'm happy to bring you this public information broadcast. Normal service will now be resumed...

3936

Whitewater and River SUP / Re: UK River Surfers.com

« on: July 30, 2012, 05:12:18 AM »

If you want a laugh, here's a friend of mine demonstrating how NOT to SUP on a river in the UK.

3937

Gear Talk / Re: Fin box for F16

« on: July 25, 2012, 05:24:48 AM »

Upwinder is dead right. I put a fin box directly in front of the rudder column on my Naish 17. This was because:

1. I use a fixed fin for DW as well as flat water and so I didn't want to stiffen the handling of the board, especially since one of the reasons I was putting the fin box in was so I could stay further forward on the board to e.g. catch runners. Our conditions are quite different from Hawaiian ones, much shorter period, and so you have to get really forward to get on the bump. I was also very impressed by the handling of a 16.5ft Richmond custom DW board I tried in our conditions, which had the fin very far forward.

2. A PIA about the Naish rudder is that it picks up every bit of weed going. So I wanted to use a larger fin which was more weed-shedding. This meant a more swept back design. So if I put the box in front of the rudder but slid the raked fin right back in it, I could get the bulk of the trailing part of the fin pretty much where the rudder used to be. And no weeds! I was worried, again, that if I used a raked fin in a box behind the rudder then it would make the board too stiff for my purposes.

3. Putting a box in front of the rudder means that if I want to put the rudder back I can place a very small fin in the front box, and slide it right back, and then that will act as a weed shedder for the rudder. Again, this was a trick I saw on the custom Richmond. So as far as I know, that is Craig Richmond's idea, not mine. It seemed to work great on his board, according to the owner.

But if I was only going to use the fixed fin for flat water, I'd have done exactly as Upwinder has done, and PB suggests, and put it behind the rudder.

I noticed in a recent video of Peterp SUPIng on the Naish 17 that he also seems to have removed the rudder mechanism - ?

A lot of people seem to be putting in fixed fins in their big DW boards. It obviously depends on your local conditions, but it has made my Naish 17 immeasurably better. So much better you wouldn't believe. I run a Futures Triangle Cutaway in it and it tracks MUCH better than before in flat water and is more stable, sheds weed, and is better DW too. There's just no downside. The rudder was useless on bumps in my conditions - you might as well have just called it the EJECT mechanism - and didn't help any with tracking cross-wind either - it would just get completely overwhelmed, as you say: The only way to cope with serious cross-winds is to get right forward and then it's fine.

Of course an F16 might be different, but that's my experience, for what it's worth.

3938

Downwind and Racing / Re: Naish race today

« on: July 24, 2012, 06:45:08 AM »

Well that's one for the conspiracy theorists.

Kai Lenny, Naish sponsored rider

Dave Kalama, recently left Naish...

3939

Downwind and Racing / Re: Close up and personal with the Dart.

« on: July 23, 2012, 04:14:28 PM »

Yep, another great post DJ, thanks.

3940

Downwind and Racing / Re: Close up and personal with the Dart.

« on: July 23, 2012, 01:32:35 PM »

Is the nose design really that unusual in a DW board?

The Angulo Shaka also has a V in the rockered part of the nose, and the Naish 17 in effect does since it closes almost to a tube at the front. The C4 Switchblade also has a distinct rockered V up front, and whilst you might argue the latter is not really a DW-specific board, I've also seen a custom Richmond DW SUP with a similar kind of design.

As for reverse steer, is this going to be much of an issue when the V is in the rockered part of the nose? I don't know the answer to that, I'm just asking.

For me, the more unusual thing about the Dart is the wide square tail. Most DW-oriented boards I can think of have a pintail or at least a much narrower tail - it looks wider than the Naish 14 for instance. But maybe it just appears wide in the pictures.

I'll let you know later this week anyway, since I've also got my new Dart (full carbon) arriving... it's just clearing customs now.

3941

Gear Talk / Re: Paddle/Surf/Paddle Board Recommendation

« on: July 15, 2012, 02:24:15 PM »

That's a pretty tall order!

If you want noticeably more surf ability you are going to have to go smaller and less volume. Which will mean that it won't work as well for carrying heavy loads.

I'd suggest buying a cheap pre-owned surf SUP to use on those days when you will be surfing. If you get something big like a Naish Nalu 11-6 or the 2012 Surftech Laird 12ft surf SUP then you will maintain at least some of the load-lugging capability. But, really, it might be time to decide before you hit the water what you are going to do, and tool up accordingly. In other words, buy a cheap full-on surf SUP rather than trying to make an impossible compromise.

Hope this helps!

3942

Downwind and Racing / Re: Downwind in NorCal

« on: July 15, 2012, 01:40:47 PM »

Where I am in the UK the water gets down to 39F in winter, with air temps around freezing. Generally, the most common paddling kit for most people is a long john (or neoprene trousers) with thermal vest, and a good quality breathable semi-dry cag on top. But this may be because dry suits are very expensive here, and would be overkill outside winter months, so most people prefer to use varying combinations and layers of wetsuit and thermal gear as the conditions require. I have several long and short johns built up over several years that vary in thickness from 0.5mm to 4 mm and can be used in combination. Polypro thermal vests etc. are also the most wonderful invention.

As PonoBill says, full wetsuits are pretty dire for downwind. Not only are they restrictive for paddling, but you get far too hot when you paddle in them, and then as soon as you stop you get cold because of the sweat inside the suit. If you have some way of regulating your body temp and adapting to the changes in temp (e.g. via a breathable semi-dry cag with a zip neck) then this helps a lot. Many long johns also have relief zippers which is a godsend when you are miles from anywhere in a cold environment... and want to stay dry...

Unfortunately, downwinding in cold climates usually means getting pretty hot at some point because you have to plan for a dunk even though you hope it won't happen. So hydration is equally important.

3943

Downwind and Racing / Re: Winter (in Oz) down-winder.

« on: July 15, 2012, 08:01:39 AM »

1min 12... ah, the "downwind layback"... protocol demands that you then take a sip of water and pretend that you meant all along to take a rest! Good for you for not editing it out.

Great vid again, DJ. Looks very similar to the little downwind conditions I had today in the UK. Only it is supposed to be our summer...

3944

Downwind and Racing / Re: Is there a perfect 14foot all round SUP?

« on: July 15, 2012, 07:50:44 AM »

Whoa there! I'm delighted to hear about the characteristics of the F16, because I would like very much to have one, and the information that PB gives here is extremely valuable to me, so thanks very much for that. And I'm entirely sympathetic to the general drift of the advice here, which is towards getting a DW board and not being put off by long lengths.

But the OP was asking about downsides to such a big (DW) board, and there definitely are some, besides just storage and transport. Here's five I can think of:

1. As a SUP gets longer, it becomes increasingly likely to "weather- vane" (i.e. the nose will want to drift downwind) in cross-winds and chop. There is a point at which conditions can be so bad that it becomes simply impossible to paddle across the wind/chop. This point is much lower for a 16ft board than say a 12-6 board, and it isn't uncommon if you are trying to e.g. steer across 30+ knots to find that a reasonable paddler on a 12-6 will be able to will maintain course when that same paddler on a 16ft board would have to give up entirely. This could obviously have serious safety implications in certain situations. If your DW courses have a significant cross-wind section then you might want to consider this. A rudder doesn't help that much - they are typically so small relative to the windage attracted by the nose on a long board that it will be easily overwhelmed once the wind really starts blowing a hoolie.

2. If your DW course ends or starts through a surf break then a 16ft board will be significantly harder to handle, and significantly more likely to get damaged (all other things being equal) than a shorter board.

3. The bigger a board gets, the harder it is to load and unload from a roof rack, and the harder it is to carry to the water. If you often DW alone (as I do) in windy conditions (e.g. 25+ knots), and where the launch point can be a long walk cross-wind from your vehicle, then this becomes a matter for serious consideration. There are ways round each of these problems for the single-handed, but it does require planning and forethought, and in some cases, extra equipment (e.g. Mules, slings, specialist roof rack gear).

4. A 16ft DW board will be significantly slower in flat water than an unlimited class flat water board. It may be more similar in speed to a 14ft flat water race board than an equivalent length displacement nose race board.

5. Most people want rudders on boards longer than 14ft. Rudders can be a PITA in a hundred different ways. They break. They add weight. They don't surf as well as an appropriate fixed fin. They reduce the ability to fine-tune day-to-day the board to the conditions: in many of the DW situations found around the world they might not always perform as well as a well-chosen fixed fin. Inevitably, their design is a compromise. Many rudder designs look almost perfect for collecting every piece of weed going, and if you DW through e.g. fields of lobster pots or similar hazards as I do, then dagger-type rudders can easily catch something in the water and get ripped off. If that happens a couple of miles from shore in a big blow you will have a situation on your hands.

Unfortunately, I think any decision about which SUP to buy will involve a series of choices and compromises. So you need to rank the characteristics of what you want most first, and then go seek the board that best meets these. I think the OP has been very sensible in asking for boards that are easy to start out on.

Hmm..despite all the above, I would personally still really like a F16...

3945

Downwind and Racing / Re: Is there a perfect 14foot all round SUP?

« on: July 14, 2012, 01:25:10 PM »

If you want a production DW board with a rudder, which is what you are asking about, then I think it's pretty much either a SIC (which outside of Hawaii might be hard to source) or a Naish 17. Most people don't need a rudder on a 14ft board because the dynamics of DW are different on a SUP than a surfski or OC because you can move your weight around so much more. This often makes a rudder redundant at smaller lengths.

The Naish Glide 14 might be also on your list to consider alongside the SB CR if you don't want a rudder. If you want a ruddered 14 then probably best to look to SIC or go custom.

In general though, I'm with 1paddle2paddle: if you are lucky enough to have good downwind conditions and courses near you then forget flat water racing characteristics and go get some excitement downwind instead!