Messages

31

General Discussion / Re: AWSI Show 2023

« on: September 13, 2023, 09:51:02 AM »

Its nice to know how good I will be able to be one day if I keep up the practice, eat my vegetables and study hard 

32

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: September 12, 2023, 03:47:21 PM »

Yes!  Beasho was using Gorilla Glue to laminate fibers.

The dream was that Gorilla glue would be more accessible, and faster given its 1 part nature.  AKA no more mixing epoxy for perfect cure . . . .

My first board I used Gorilla Glue to laminate the majority of the nose and tail.  On this board I used it on the tail.

The good news is that it worked.  The downside was that it tends to set up too quickly, making it a bit hard to work with large patches of fiber lamination.

The other benefit is with Ding Repair.  You can just slop on some gorilla glue, cover with Tape and go surf 1 hour later.  No worry about making it water proof because the whole board is porous anyways.

33

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: September 05, 2023, 11:12:25 AM »

Beasho did you leave the bottom.with peal ply texture?
Similar maybe to sharkskin denticles?

Yes.  With all my final lamination layers I never added any 'clear coatings.'  So I would just vacuum bag with Peel Ply and call it finished.

The carbon comes out very sleek looking.  The Kevlar has a slightly burlap, or sharkskin, texture.  Smoother to the touch than it looks.  BUT definitely not a polished finish. 

34

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: September 05, 2023, 11:10:17 AM »

I think the point was that kevlar absorbs water but innegra does not.
Innegra has excellent impact resistance  and is probably the lightest fiber out there.

If i was going to use minimal amounts of resin (or GGlue as i think Beasho is using) i would definitely go for a waterproof material.
Water is very dense and even a little amount seeping into the Kevlar fibers during the sesh will add weight.

Both Gorilla Glue and Epoxy have a specific gravity of 1.1 meaning 10% heavier than water.  So, if there is any water seeping into the fiber it weighs LESS than the Glue would otherwise weigh permanently bonded into the fiber. 

Said another weigh, porous fiber will always be ligther than glue filled fiber whether or not it takes on water.   

35

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg

« on: August 17, 2023, 10:59:42 AM »

3 KG is fantastic.  I was surprised it was so light given all the carbon.  Great Job!

I was just yammering with Kyle Pemberton about board designs.  People keep talking about foiling being a game of inches, and millimeters and just incremental improvements. NO WAY!

When a production SUP Foil board weighs more than 15 lbs it is either 1) For Aesthetics 2) Over Engineered 3) Badly Engineered or all 3.  A 120 liter board can be made between 10 and 12 lbs. 

Foil boards require a formidable deck and box structure, but otherwise the periphery should be light and potentially sacrificial. 

Keep us posted on those Cores.  There is some risk of water intrusion. 

36

Foil SUP / Re: Kai Lenny interview

« on: August 15, 2023, 06:17:02 AM »

This was a great interview.

I liked the part about the moon being 20X closer to the earth when it formed. 

I remember learning that the moon moves 1.5 inches further from the earth each year.  This means that the moon must have been geosynchronous at one point.  The moon would therefore have only been above 1 part of the earth, locked.

Go back further and the moon would have imparted much, much more gravitational influence on the earth.  According to Neil's calculations 20^3 power meaning 8,000 times as much influence as today.

So with tides that were ~ 8,000 times greater, meaning thousands of feet high, how could life on the surface of the earth ever have evolved?

Said another way terrestrial life probably had to wait until the tides stopped washing them away to get a foothold. 

https://startalkmedia.com/show/big-wave-physics-with-kai-lenny/

37

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: August 04, 2023, 06:21:49 AM »

It floats like a Butterfly . . . .

The biggest day of the summer!  A Sunday, so it was SUPER crowded, slightly overhead on sets.  I would just sit wide, out paddle the long boarders and stay wide of the mayhem.

Ultralight is high performance.  Axis 1201 with 300P tail and 75 cm High Modulus mast.  This was the 65th Session on this board.   

38

General Discussion / Re: M2O Race this Sunday July 30, 2023, live tracking link

« on: July 31, 2023, 06:14:39 PM »

Great Job Robert.  I/we were watching in real time.  It looked like a struggle to tack or something once you turned the final Northward leg.  You and Alan were neck and neck on the dot tracker.

Congrats to Nani Dalene too.  I texted her.  She is a ball of energy and stoke.  I met her on Oahu and she was telling me about getting barreled at Teahupoo on a kite. 

39

General Discussion / Re: M2O Race this Sunday July 30, 2023, live tracking link

« on: July 29, 2023, 05:52:49 AM »

Looks like FOIL Division race starts at 9:30 am Hawaii on Sunday 7/30/23:

40

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 25, 2023, 09:47:04 AM »

Quick question. Why Kevlar? It's a hydrophilic cloth meaning the cloth itself will absorb water. It is also has a higher density than Innegra. Innegra is hydrophobic as well as being lower in density. I cant be sure, but you could possibly shave a few ounces off with different materials as well as avoid possible water intrusion into the fibers.  It's only a guess of course, but id be curious to find out.

The primary objective was to be "light in the ends."  Similar to America's Cup boats that were illegally fast because they had reduced swing weight back in the 1980's. 

The secondary objective was to be ding proof.  On my first board I used 1.4 ounce/Yard fiberglass.  The lightweight glass was intended to keep the XPS from flaking off over time.  However it does ding, or puncture, with sharper impact.  Even my big toe.  The Kevlar, on test samples, proved to be very ding proof against acute impact and was only 2.2 ounce/Yard.  Semi affordable @ $32 per yard from Fiberglass supply.  I would use Innegra if available, or affordable (??). 

The hydrophilic/hydrophobic didn't necessarily apply because I am not making my XPS boards waterproof.  To do that takes too much time, material, weight and quality control.  Ironically I have found that the moisture, if any in the fiber, serves as a natural evaporative coolant to keep the XPS from baking in the sun.  Although I have kept the boards out of direct sunlight when not in use. 

Between the 2 boards I have > 120 sessions combined and they are both holding up with no random XPS delamination that people seemed wary of. 

Now when I look at a board with full Carbon layers tip to tail I just see unnecessary dead weight.  The nose and tails of SUP foil boards serve no purpose but for flotation on takeoff.  They only need to be strong enough to not to randomly snap off.  The America's Cup'ers were pushing the limits of this idea 37 years ago, and I remember some boats did break.  We will only know we've gone too light, too far when things start to break off.   

IMO most production boards are way too heavy focusing on aesthetics and given the amount of box failures NOT investing in Track strength.  I went the other way and Invested heavily on deck structure and in the track support with carbon rods and XPS infrastructure but still less than a Full Divinycell high density stringer design.  I Divested of strength in the ends, waterproofing and showroom finish.  This board ended up 2 to 5 lbs lighter than comparable 115 liter boards. 

In a world where people are talking about 1% improvements in foil efficiency its crazy to me that board weight, meaning advantages of 15% to 50% are largely ignored.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-12-23-sp-122-story.html

"The fiberglass boat was found not illegally light in the ends, unfairly enhancing its speed, and was not in violation of the rule prohibiting a more beneficial weight distribution than an aluminium yacht."

41

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 16, 2023, 12:25:13 PM »

The board will sweat? Meaning it's taking in water and then spitting it back out when it heats up?

I can't tell how much emotion there is in these phrases.  But Yes!  It will take in water and then breathe it out like a living organism. 

No hard candy shell.  No additional weight. 

It is incredibly hard to make a board waterproof with one layer of fiber and resin.  Pinholes abound.  Builders have traditionally added 2 - 6 lbs of weight to fill pinholes and give a gloss finish to the board. 

I ask: "Do you want pretty, or do you want high performance?" 

The sweating doesn't happen everywhere.  Typically at the boundary between the XPS layers on the forward rocker.  A few drips in, a few drips out. 

42

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 16, 2023, 11:10:00 AM »

Transcends the Barracuda

43

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 16, 2023, 11:09:42 AM »

This is the second ultralight board that I have built. 

I can now say from experience that when you map out the build for the board you should be able to estimate and then achieve within a few percentage points the lamination weight from both fiber and resin. 

I originally wanted this board to be just 10 lbs.  But my first build would have benefitted from a slightly more robust deck area.  The solution here was to use 3 nearly full deck coverings that were in a Tri-Axial bias.  This was an idea procured from here on the Zone and STRETCH where he discussed the stiffness benefits of Bi-Axial layups.  And if Bi was Good Tri should be better.

There was no final gloss coat on this board.  I did paint over the pink rails with Yellow spray paint for some more aesthetic appeal.  The lack of gloss coat means that the board breathes through the multiple pinholes mostly in the Kevlar layers.  This has become a feature more than a flaw and the board will sweat if left in the sun. 

What better way to stay cool 

44

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 16, 2023, 11:04:02 AM »

Layup of the Tri-Axial deck top patch.

45

The Shape Shack / Ultralight Board II – SUP Foil Bumblebee

« on: July 16, 2023, 11:02:49 AM »

My desire was to replace one or both of my 6’ x 30” x 115 liter Jeff Clark board and my 7’ 4” x 31” x 125 liter L41.  And to make one of the lightest SUP foil boards in the world.

And this is the Bumblebee 6’ 9” x 26” x 5” x 115 liters @ 11 lbs (5.0 kg). 

The construction was from 1.5 lbs/cu. foot XPS waterproof foam.  2 x 2” Layers from Home Depot.  The top layer was 1.8 lbs/cu. foot 1” thick.
The ‘Cassette’ standing area was reinforced with 2 layers of 5.8 oz carbon in a T-orientation 38” long and 24” wide by the base.  The top of the Cassette, the dance floor, is 3 layers of 5.8 oz carbon oriented in a 30-, 60- and 90-degree bias to add significant stiffness to the deck patch.

The nose and tail, ~ 18” each end, were covered in 2.2 oz Kevlar.  The objective was to keep the board as light as possible in the ends.  The Kevlar on XPS is very puncture resistant.

The side walls were 44” x 7” of 3.7 oz S-Glass and I added 48” x 2” @ 3.7oz S-Glass rail guards for paddle protection.  The top rails were also overlapped by ~1.5” with 2 layers of the Kevlar.  One layer from the bottom and one layer from the top. 

The final build came out to 11 lbs with pads and Strap making for an HL (Hectoliter) Factor of 9.6 lbs / 100 Liter. 

HL Factor = 9.6