Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - SUP-Lurker

Pages: 1 [2]
SUP General / iSUP leak repair and pump for while on a trip
« on: October 26, 2021, 07:06:20 PM »
I just got my first iSUP and wonder if I should take a small pump and repair kit with me to repair a leak while SUP-ing somewhere. I plan to do day-trips and if I have a leak, I like to be able to repair and to be able to re-inflate and get back to my starting location. That could be 10-15km on water. I'm near Madison, WI and the largest lake is Lake Mendota,-89.4954853,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x88065354b86eb411:0x9729efbead0277c3!8m2!3d43.109671!4d-89.4206079 , about 6km in diameter. The lake is relatively busy and I assume I could get back to some shore. My iSUP has 2 air-chambers, so I could paddle to some pier and repair there, re-inflate and go back on my way.

The actual permanent patches and glue take 24 hours to cure before re-inflating. So that clearly doesn't work while on the water. The glue also has a shelf life of 1-year and I just know I will end up with old glue.
I found these temporary patches:
- Flex tape that allegedly also works to apply under water That would work well assuming on a pier i can't do a perfect priming job
- Tear Aid. There is one for inflatables, and one for vinyl I'm not sure if either has a pressure rating to be used on drop-stitch. i couldn't see if that has a drying time and if it can be applied on wet or otherwise imperfect surface.

Do those patches actually work? Or are there other patch methods that work without a long curing time? I know I would need some sort of small high-pressure pump since I don't want to carry the large floor-pump with me. But first I need to know if I actually can patch.

another wrinkle I see is when there is a leak, water may be inside the iSUP. Regardless of what type of patch, how does one get that water out before patching? Or can the water be be coerced out later by opening the valve and somehow funneling it out?

Am I over-thinking this? I've never seen a video or picture of iSUP with people having pumps with them unless it was a packed touring iSUP. I'm a somewhat belt and suspenders guy, hence the dual-chamber iSUP.

(I still haven't figured out how to include the links in a word so they don't show full length)

I decided to end this research and yesterday ordered the Nixy Monterey for $835 plus their premium kayak seat. they already were $100 down, and had an open box. I fear if I wait too long, much inventory will be gone. I figured buying a package with premium accessories makes more sense for a first iSUP. For an upgrade it may make less sense, since one then already has a good paddle and pump. So for my next iSUP I can focus on ones without great accessories (or preferably none).

I think there are reasonable scenarios where any of the above iSUP make sense. The Monterey will be a great 2-person kayak, 2-person iSUP with daughter and maybe my wife wants to start at some point. So for me it made sense. And for this type of iSUP I think I got top of the line is. 

FWIW, Another possibly good cheap iSUP I found the 12'6"x30" Tower iRace. Best part is they also sell it as the iSUP only (no package). It made less sense to me since I also need a paddle. But I really wish more manufacturers would offer the iSUP without all the accessories (Especially the manufacturer that plasters their website with all the sustainability things they do :-)

Last week I also contacted some manufacturers with some questions. The manufacturer with the fastest responses was Sea Eagle. Red, Starbaord, Gili and Tower were seconds. iRocker never responded. Nixy kind of responded, but only saying someone else will answer the questions and so far haven't. So I'm kind of blindly trusting they have good support and all the good reviews weren't paid advertisement.

I researched a bit more and narrowed it down a bit. Let me know if I'm out of touch.
- board stiffness will have major impact on stability, or at least how stable it feels to me. With the bow and stern being lifted, it also shortens the waterline and reduces speed. So a good stiff design will make a given iSUP better
- My main failure scenario while on the water is to go by downed trees and poke a hole from a branch
- I need at least a carbon hybrid paddle (like the Nixy paddle they sell for $95). Any lesser paddle I likely upgrade soon and I add the cost below.
- Whatever I buy I likely keep long term as a second/family/guest iSUP. So resale value or it being the perfect board for in 2 years isn't that important, but longevity is. I totally realize in 1-2 years I need to spend $ on a very good iSUP that will meet my future needs better.
- Most accessories that come with iSUPs are just for the landfill and I wish manufacturers would just sell the plain board without pump and paddle. Even if a manufacturer provides good pump and paddle, what will one do with all the equipment if you buy multiple iSUPs?

- for the Starboard ZEN SC I'm really concerned about flex and puncture due to the single-layer. Zen is cheaper and lighter than Deluxe. That typically means less strong and the above video shows. And a DC Deluxe iSUP from Starbaord would be $1,500 with paddle. Without knowing what my long term iSUP will be that is too high.
- Fanatic would cost $770 with paddle and seems to have similar single-layer construction and weight as the Starboard Zen boards. So the same concern about stiffness and the 1-year warranty also doesn't help

Still considering:
- Sea Eagle Needlenose 126 for $750 inc paddle. Negative is they use a glued heavier construction, but that could mean better puncture protection. IDK. Another negative they don't use US-fin box. Positive is they have longer 3-year warranty and I'm somewhat intrigued by their Needlenose design since it slices through the water and provides a longer waterline. I'm curious to hear if someone has specifics about downsides of the SE (besides what I listed)

My current favorite:
- Nixy Monterey for $835 inc paddle and the only one with a reasonable pump. That is most likely to be the stiffest board (dual chamber, woven dropstitch, carbon rail etc.) while still being lighter. The added safety due to dual-chamber also is good. The long term use after I advanced and buy a faster second iSUP would be for 2-people (my daughter) touring with it and for general family/guest iSUP. It won't be as fast and tracking as what I originally asked for, but I can't over-look the quality it seems to have and the good utility for many years of future family use. It would be a good compliment to whatever fast iSUP I will buy later.

Obviously it is my $, my decision, and I really want to order next week so I'm done with this decision making  :D. Tell me if my assumptions are wrong and if conclusions are totally unreasonable. I don't want to ding a specific manufacturer and realize all my opinion is based on zero experience boarding and without seeing any of the boards in person.

thanks for the replies. All good points.

Renting/Demoing: it is turning winter now and even in summer, the local places only have what I call Dicks's Sporting goods type vessels. And there literally was nothing available in person this year. and with so many options (like Starbaord has) I doubt a dealer would literally the one I want there to demo. and since I fear next spring will have no inventory, I have to buy now based on theorizing. Basically pick one that seems good enough and demo for a a year or two. Even if i coudl demo 2 good boards, as a beginner all of them would feel wabbly  ;D

Resale: If I pick well, I probably will use it for 1-2 years as my primary board, then if I upgrade, keep it as a secondary unless i can sell it well. And at the sub-$1k price it is still money well spent to get education even if I can't sell it at all. Our local market doesn't seem to have any premium brands anyway. Maybe after COVID there will be a ton of new and used iSUP flooding the market. Who knows. Or maybe I run into a stick and destroy it. So I really don't want to over-estimate resale at this point. I agree, a Starboard likely would sell better, though.

Sea Eagle: could someone point out what exactly is bad about their construction? They seem to use an older dropstitch construction with more layers compared to the Starboard single layer and that shows in the weight. But more layers could mean stiffer and more robust? IDK. They don't say their rails are welded, so I assume they are glued. I researched for SE reviews and didn't really found bad ones. But I didn't find any reviews comparing them to Starbaord etc. the only negative reviews I saw where from totally unreasonable people (one person who wanted the 3-eyar warranty honored after 5 years, one person who wanted today's price guaranteed for a purchase they want to do next year etc.). they offer 3 year warranty. What I like about them is they only offer one quality type for each model. I don't like the Starboard model of offering lower and high quality versions of the same type. I own their bottom of the barrel SE 370 kayak and while it shows the price point, it is decent for what it is (only had it this year though). One notable disadvantage of the SE are the glued fins (my SE 370 only has glued fins). Since they are an annoyance when packing away and take away the option to use different fins. I saw one remove fins and boxes and install a US fin box. but sure would not do that on a new boat under warranty. Those glued fins bugged me all summer, even if I didn't bend or damage them. BTW, the $500 Longboard I mentioned above seems to be sold out (was an ebay seller who had 3 return models)

Starbaord: price-wise I look at ZEN construction. but fear it is a bit flexy. I saw this German review and it seems to flex a LOT and they also point out it is due to the single-layer construction.  Looking at the video the bow and stern lift out of the water quite a bit. Is the flexing shown in the video typical for boards in this price-class? So to get a somewhat stiff board from Starbaord it seems on needs to get the Deluxe and/or Double chamber. So price-wise this gets out of the beginner range. I'd spend the money for a good board, but with zero knowledge, I need a burner board first.

Size: sounds like a 30" width may be better long term. On a previous thread I researched the Nixy Monterey (34"wide, which is a great board), but decided to go for a touring type. Honestly, I was so impressed with Nixy, if they made a touring boat, I really would consider that.
Would for my size (175#/5'11") a 12'6"x30" be a good target size? or would looking at 14'x30" be appropriate? It seems many touring boards are in this class.

Tahe: I saw those and don't totally exclude them since they could serve as a family board later. But price-wise they get really close to the Nixy Monterey, and the packages have the glued fins. I think only the one 11'6"without the seat package uses US fin box.

Fanatik: thanks for the links, they were not on my radar. Should I be worried about only 1 year warranty? On their website it looks not all use the US-fin box. They seem to have quite some rocker and being on flat water, I fear the actual water line will be short (lower speed). I'd consider some lower brands if the price is right and they don't make stupid design choices (i.e. glued fins).

Seat option: I outgrew my SE 370 kayak. So I either would have to buy a separate kayak, or make do with the iSUP. I don't even know what IK i would like at thsi point, but it sure woudl cost $800+. i rahter put that $ in a better iSUP now or later. So I really want to give the seat on iSUP a try. And inflatable kayak isn't a great kayak to begin with. So a good iSUP should be as good as an IK. On long tours I sure will like the change between both modes. I totally realize on an SUP forum this is being frowned on and maybe I will agree after I actually try it  :)

I'm looking for a decent beginner touring iSUP in the 12'6"x30" size class. I'm in Madison, WI area and have kayaked the local lakes and rivers. Some boat wakes, but no large waves. I'm 175# and 5'11". So far I only had 1 hour rental SUP experience and have a few months Inflatable Kayak (IK) experience.

Before I decide to spend the big-$ on the perfect iSUP, i need to get soem experience to judge what width, length etc. really is needed after i get some more skill. I also want to start out with a seat to use the iSUP in kayak mode (I know, a beginner idea). I only want a reputable iSUP (no amazon brands etc.) that will last at least a few years. but one that doesn't cost too much since it may for only 1-2 years. I do day-tours and go to places. I don't take any significant luggage with me. Tracking and speed is somewhat important, hence the touring type that hopefully keeps this beginner alive. Cross-wind has been a problem with my inflatable kayak, and I hope an iSUP being lower will help.

I already own a good triple-action 2-cylinder pumps. I know at some point I need to buy a good paddle. Water here sometimes becomes shallow. So I may want to play with fin sizes.

Tell me if my choices are bad and I will regret them or if you have better ideas:
1. A return model (full 3 year warranty) Sea Eagle Longboard 126 for $500 that comes with a seat (worth $50) and Al paddles (worth nothing) and cheap pump
2. A return model (full 3 year warranty)  Sea Eagle Needlenose 126 for $650  with somewhat heavy fiberglass shaft paddle (worth not a lot) and cheap pump
3. A new Starbaord (2 year warranty) Zen SC 12'6x30" for $830 with a cheap pump.

Disadvantage of the Sea Eagle is they are heavy (30#) and don't use US-finbox. The starboard weighs a bit over 20# and has US-fin. Are there other advantages or disadvantages between the two brands? I know Starboard seems to be a stronger brand, whatever that means. I did look in other brands, but they either don't have a US-fin box either, or are quite more expensive than the Sea Eagles.

So for boats that I may only have 1-2 years, which others would be good? I like to focus on good brands with 2+ years warranty, and US-finbox unless it is a smoking deal.

If I wanted to splurge, there is a Starbaord Zen with Dual-Chamber for $1,130 that is 14'x32". My fear with that is, it may be too large. That money would be for an iSUP to keep for long.

I'm in the "paralysis by analysis" trap and for each of the options I think "if I add just $150 I get so much more iSUP". So do I go with the cheapest knowing I change anyway, the middle knowing it will be faster and track better, or more expensive? We have winter coming, so trying out some options isn't an option.  But I want to buy soon so I don't end up with supply line line issues next year.

SUP General / Re: Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 15, 2021, 02:48:58 PM »
Thanks. That looks like a fast boat. Warranty says 2 years through Tahe (I assume that Tahe that also makes the beginner SUPs). But I fear before I look at the sub-30" boats I better get some experience before making a large commitment.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm staying away from the Monterey and focus on more touring oriented boards since I may enjoy them for longer, even if I get wet in the first few attempts. The Monterey is a great package for the mission (exploration with lots of luggage, I assume), but not really what I try to do. BTW, for some reason I assumed it includes the full-carbon paddle. It actually is the hybrid Carbon-fiberglass paddle they sell for $95. Still a good deal, though.

The touring iSUP may not be ideal for taking my kid. But when I take her we swim anyway, so falling off is less of an issue. I also can keep my SE 370 kayak for next summer to paddle with her. Or for just playing around i could buy a separate Amazon iSUP, or rent. But taking her out of the equation gives me a more mission-driven iSUP for the long haul.

So I'm looking for something in the 12'6"x30 or similar to start out. I also would consider the above Starbaord 14'x32", unless this is too large boat for me. Is there a " too large"?

Alternatively I could get a cheaper single-chamber iSUP for next year and gain some experience before looking into the 14' long or the sub-30". I found Starbaord Zen SC 12'6"x30" for $800 or a Sea Eagle Needlenose 126 for $650 (with fiber paddle). Main disadvantage of the SE is, it weighs 30# and has glued fins and slide fin vs. the 20 pounds for the Starboard that has US-fin box.
I also found a Sea Eagle Longboard 12'6" for $500 with Al-paddle and seat (I obviously would need to replace that paddle).

Edit: probably best I start a separate thread for a touring iSUP

SUP General / Re: Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 15, 2021, 08:25:48 AM »

SUP General / Re: Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 15, 2021, 08:24:57 AM »
Thanks, for the reply. Yes the seat is really a thing I won't know before trying. I saw that thread about that rowing device and have no idea how it would actually be more efficient for humans compared to kayak or regulars SUP. And one still has to stand. Maybe I just want to sit down for some minutes and relax. I first thought it is an April 1st article :-)

So assuming I want Dual-Chamber (DC), it seems Starbaord's narrowest option is 30" wide. I found a Starboard Zen DC 14'x32" for $1,100. With buying a $200 paddle, that would be just $400 over the Monterey. The other options in the cheaper ZEN type is 12'6"x30 and in the more expensive Deluxe 14'x30".
Would that be a better Goldilock for me as a beginner that also wants relatively good speed and tracking? It could avoid me having to buy a future 2nd SUP. Some concerns:
- could I (175#/79kg) be too light being close to their lower 70kg limit? It could be too high in the water and more susceptible to cross-wind. I don't turn a lot, so that isn't a big concern.
- it has D-rings on the starboard side for a carry handle. I could replicate that on the port side for my seat idea. Is a DIY D-ring as sturdy as factory applied?
- is 32" width too much for once I'm intermediate? With such long boat it may not impact speed as much, though. The narrowest double-chamber with the cheaper ZEN construction is 12'6"x 30". In the much more expensive Deluxe it is 14'x30". So the skinniest I can go with DC is 30"anyway and 32"isn't that different.
- Is the cheaper ZEN construction OK, or is the Deluxe really better and worth the money?

Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to insert the links so they don't show in full length.

SUP General / Re: Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 15, 2021, 07:17:26 AM »
Thanks for the reply. Maybe I'm using the wrong terms here for hull-types. I mainly see the difference in the nose. Sounds like the center of the iSUP will be planing either way. The Typical touring boats (like Red voyager, Needlenose) seem to slice more through the water with a pointy nose that isn't bowing up. What I call planing are the ones with a round nose (and possibly rear) that lifts up.

Good points about the logistics of using it as kayak and SUP and I need to try out. A wider type sure would make things easier. My original plan was to buy a better inflatable kayak (IK) for next year. But was looking for one I could stand in occasionally to save my hurting body from sitting pain. then i rented an SUP and took my daughter and she liked that. So there was the idea to get a SUP instead so we can do things together. it also is a better swimming platform. Assuming a wide stance, I could stand where the seat is or lightly in front. I also plan to take two actual paddles and not use one of those SUP/kayak conversion paddles since they likely are a bad compromise. All leashed on. Maybe I get a metal seat and can leash to that or so. I don't want to create a tangle mess.
I realize this is more  a beginner idea to use a seat and kayak paddle. And once I use it I will see if I can do 4+ hours standing, or not. But I have the feeling doing 100% standing will be hard for a beginner. I realize an SUP as a kayak will be limited. But many of the inflatable kayaks are very limited to begin with.

As for adding D-rings: I even had asked Starboard and Red about if adding D-Rings voids the warranty and they said it would be fine. But I'm a bit shy to buy an over $1K (or $1.6K in case of Red) and start butchering it with glue :-) . And the iSUP that come with D-rings have them going through the deck pad. For an iSUP not designed with D-Rings I would have to add them next to the padding or even on the rounded side (I assume gluing on the padding wouldn't work well?). I'm also not sure if a factory-D-Ring would just be better for a seat assuming I'm pushing against it.

As for cost, once I'm sure I use it for some time and use it often, I rather buy something good. So if I buy the Monterey now I can use that for years while I learn, or when I go with my daughter. Once I have more SUP knowledge and skill, I may buy a separate longer/thinner iSUP that I use on my own and then have 2.

As of now I assume next summer we will have supply chain issues again. Whatever I buy over winter, I will have to be happy with all summer. After next summer I can re-assess my needs. If it wasn't for the fear of lack of supplies, I'd consider buying a cheap amazon iSUP and try it out for some weeks, and then make a decision and buy a better one of the correct type. But if 2022 is like this year, I would be stuck with a cheap iSUP all summer. Then I have my cheap kayak, and a cheap iSUP and none works really well.

Edit:  and thanks for brining up the Starboard SC experience. Maybe they are bit out of my beginner-need and beginner-budget right now, But I like their dual-chamber touring iSUPs. I won't be far away from the shore, and our lakes are busy with boats that could rescue me. But if I had a leak, I sure would be happy to have spent the money on DC. They advertise it as a stiffening feature, and it may be, but the safety aspect is more important IMHO. It is like airbags in a car. Most of the time and for most people they are wasted money, except that one time when you really want them.....

Edit 2: I found a Starboard Zen DC 14'x32" for $1,100. Would that be a better Goldilock for me as a beginner that also wants relatively good speed and tracking? It is without paddle, so add $200. Makes it $1,300 vs. the $900 for the Monterey. I could do the added $400. But it could avoid me having to buy a future 2nd SUP. Some concerns:
- could I (175#/79kg) be too light being close to their lower 70kg limit? It could be too high in the water and more susceptible to cross-wind. I don't turn a lot, so that isn't a big concern.
- it has D-rings on the starboard side for a carry handle. I could replicate that on the port side for my seat idea. Is a DIY D-ring as sturdy as factory applied?
- is 32" width too much for once I'm intermediate? Which such long boat it may not impact speed as much, though. The narrowest double-chamber with the cheaper ZEN construction is 12'6"x 30". In the much more expensive Deluxe it is 14'x30". So the skinniest I can go with DC is 30"anyway and 32"isn't that different.
- Is the cheaper ZEN construction OK, or is the Deluxe really better and worth the money?

SUP General / Re: Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 14, 2021, 06:33:16 PM »
Thanks for the response. I'm also planning to replace my inflatable kayak (SE 370) since I outgrew that (speed, tracking, comfort on longer tours). So this SUP will be SUP and kayak. That is where speed and tracking came from. On my kayak I did up to 20km over 4.5 hours once and if it wasn't for comfort, could have gone longer. This summer I basically had to cut my trips at 2 hours to stay in the comfort zone. That also is where my requirement for the kayak seat comes from. Basically sit and kayak for an hour, then stand for an hour. My plan is to go out for all day and switch between sitting and standing.

My use is more to cover some ground and not just paddling in circles. So my use case is not the typical SUP case. I realize a SUP won't be faster than a real hard kayak. If this new iSUP will go a bit faster and a bit straighter then the SE 370, I call it a win. Very few inflatable kayaks are really fast or track well.

If we ignore taking passengers, would you recommend a beginner (175#, 5'11") to start with a 12'6"x30"? I don't go out in big waves (small lake) and some sport boat wakes are most likely to kick me off. But if they come, I likely kayak sitting. 

And is there a stability disadvantage to displacement hulls vs. planning hulls for beginners? It seems almost all lower level and beginner SUP use planing hulls.

I do like the idea of 2 air chambers since that gives me some more safety going long distances. The Starbaord DC iSUPs with dual-chamber are 30"minimum width. But they are quite more expensive and don't have D-rings for a seat. I'm surprised that 2-chambers isn't more common on touring iSUP. kayaks have 3 chambers.

Gear Talk / Re: Any opinions about the Sea Eagle Needlenose iSUP?
« on: October 14, 2021, 01:43:13 PM »
Sorry for re-surrecting an old thread. But the NN 126 isn't discussed in detail a lot. Does anyone here have longer term experience? I was looking into that as my first iSUP and the only downsides I can see is they use glued side-fins and a non US-finbox center fin. And the drop-stitch technology seems a bit older and makes it heavier. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, since lighter can mean it is easier to poke a hole in.

I apologize for opening an old thread, but didn't want to waste threads.

SUP General / Nixy Montery G4 iSUP for beginner
« on: October 14, 2021, 01:38:19 PM »
I came across the Nixy Monterey and didn't find any of the ususal paid reviews on website or discussion on forums. I assume it is a new board that is not reviewed yet. Other Nixy boards seem to receive good reviews. Does anyone have knowledge of that or have an otherwise qualified opinion?
What I like:
- dual air chamber
- modern dropstitch with carbon rail and light weight. Not all inexpensive boards have the newer dropstitch.
- US-fin box and all fins removable
- Actually useful accessories like carbon paddel and triple-action pump. Most other packages have accessories one has to replace soon
- seems to be a good value it being direct-sale

I want to use it as a SUP, but also want to add a kayak seat. I have some on the kayaking experience on the Madison, Wi waters with my Sea Eagle 370 That is calmer water, but sometimes I get caught in the wind. I weigh 175# and am 5'11". i like to do 4-6 hour day round-trips. My only SUP experience is 1-hour rental and I took my 9yo kid with me. so not a lot. but I will like the option to change between standing and sitting. I plan to add an actual kayak seat and bring real kayak paddles with me. I may take my kid with me on medium tours.

The Monterey seems wide enough at 34" for beginners. But I'm curious how fast it could go and how well it track compared to the SE 370. I also looked at 12'6"x 30" touring type iSUPs. My favorite was the Sea Eagle Needlnose 126 and also would use that with kayak seat. But I fear that may be a bit too unstable for a beginner. That also may not work well taking my kid. the NN 126 also seems a bit dated with heavier construction and glued fins. But it would be faster and track better.

I realize i may buy an iSUP now, and another one later once i have more experience.

Some questions:
- would the 34" wide planing-hull  iSUP be too wide once I learn to use it? I fear I sacrifice too much speed and can't do the vertical strokes (I have average male shoulder width, not wide). Or would a 30" wide displacement hull be OK for a beginner? What about taking my kid with me?
- Am I over-thinking the dual-air chamber? I see that as a great safety feature, but it limits my iSUP choice since this doesn't seem widely used. AFAIK Starboard has some more expensive DC iSUPs, and Aztron (and they seem to be a lower quality)
- any specific advice regarding the Monterey or Nixy in general?

BTW, I haven't figured out how to properly insert links. I can fix that if someone can tell me how. And it took me more than 10 attempts to register and to get approved. This is a very difficult forum to get into :-)

Pages: 1 [2]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2023, SimplePortal