Messages

31

The Shape Shack / Re: Modularity

« on: February 28, 2023, 06:35:54 AM »

Out of curiosity,how much will they charge for that hub?.
Once you have a "design" polished and ready what would be your guesstimate for a  full front wing (without a home printer,ordering the pieces).

32

The Shape Shack / Re: Modularity

« on: February 18, 2023, 09:55:46 AM »

This project could change foiling in wondrous ways.
When you guys get this tech to work (i think you will) the Infinity or Prandtl or Boxwing that i firmly believe to be the future of foiling might vecome an affordable reality for the masses
Pics are from https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100054654391004

33

The Shape Shack / Re: Copper anodes for galvanic corrosion

« on: February 18, 2023, 02:05:14 AM »

Mmm, you guys are right.
Copper may be useless for protecting alu.
Magnesium and zinc would be it...alu is in fact a good anode for many metals .
I think i will let it go, not going to buy this stuff to protect a gong fuse that is used in lake water only.

34

The Shape Shack / Re: Copper anodes for galvanic corrosion

« on: February 17, 2023, 01:49:17 PM »

It is not so slow Bill.
I have had galvanic damage on a Gong alu fuse that was packed with TefGel and dissasembled&rinsed every couple weeks.
The damage burrows really deep before it can be seen from the outside (pitting,swelling etc).
Galvanic action has been a problem for aluminum  marine applications since day one.
Anodizing and TefGel are great at slowing down the process, but if a little anode will help i am ok with trying.The whole marine industry cannot be wrong on this matter.

35

The Shape Shack / Re: Copper anodes for galvanic corrosion

« on: February 17, 2023, 09:54:59 AM »

https://www.alpinefoil.com/en/search/site/?q=Anode

I remembered wrong , it is Alpine Foil that uses an anode in the mast to alu fuse connection.

36

The Shape Shack / Re: Copper anodes for galvanic corrosion

« on: February 17, 2023, 09:45:56 AM »

https://galvanizeit.org/corrosion/corrosion-protection/sacrificial-anodes#:~:text=Sacrificial%20anodes%20generally%20come%20in,or%20water)%20resistivity%20is%20higher.

if you look at the list of metals, copper is toward the bottom. you would want to use magnesium.  I'm just unsure how conductive carbon epoxy matrix, you might have to sand the epoxy top coat to get the magnesium in contact with the carbon fiber.

I think copper and bronze are the traditionally used metals for sacrificial anodes in alu cruising yachts etc...

Maybe magnesium is better but i have this copper tube and it is easy to use,just drill&hammer into place.

For the steel bolts i could use some 1 or.5mm copper plate and cut washers to fit between the bolts and alu.Copper is soft and it will squeeze to fit i think.
Just trying to delay the alu pitting in a Gong/frankenstein setup.

37

The Shape Shack / Copper anodes for galvanic corrosion

« on: February 17, 2023, 08:47:14 AM »

Will an anode  like the one in the pic (3mm copper tubing hammered into 3mm drill hole) help with galvanic corrosion between Alu and steel and carbon?.
Does the sacrificial anode have to be in contact with the nobler materials (Steel or carbon) or just nearby will work?.
I know there is a brand that is putting anodes in their foils (not sure if it was AFS).

38

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Foot placement over mast.

« on: February 13, 2023, 12:36:37 PM »

The front wing is what holds you up.

It is better to set your position using the front wing as a reference point,not the mast.

The center of lift is  about 1/3 of the width  from the leading edge.
A stance that straddles that CofLift is a good starting point as Hdip wrote.



A Takuma foil will place the mast further back than a Naish or Armstrong.But the front wing will be roughly in the same place for all brands.

Even using these estimations is misleading.  The centers all change when sweep, margin, area, volume, etc change.  This calculator is great for watching them move.  https://www.ecalc.ch/wingdesigner.htm.  And theat is just for the front foil. 

Best practice, avoid all of these rules of thumb.  This really blew us up as new riders.

Cannot agree...
First of all this rules of thumb are an initial setup method.
KdMaui balance method to place the mast in the boxes, straddle the CofLift to place straps if you use them.You will be in the balllpark with most brands and foil/board combos.

Fuse,stab,shims,sweep,Armstrong kinkiness... are going to need further adjustment but most foils are pretty similar and will need little tweaking.

IMHO what really screwed beginners (and still does)  is  the fact that foils are not intuitive, understanding the forces they create takes new knowledge for most people,and for the first years most distributors,shop owners,pros etc... could ride the things really well but understod little of why or how to explain it.

So they stencilled those blasted markings on the foil box (more wind-less wind   ) and got busy selling them things.

Rant over,sorry...

39

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Foot placement over mast.

« on: February 12, 2023, 11:42:09 PM »

The front wing is what holds you up.

It is better to set your position using the front wing as a reference point,not the mast.

The center of lift is  about 1/3 of the width  from the leading edge.
A stance that straddles that CofLift is a good starting point as Hdip wrote.



A Takuma foil will place the mast further back than a Naish or Armstrong.But the front wing will be roughly in the same place for all brands.

40

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs

« on: February 12, 2023, 10:07:25 AM »

Congrats Beasho, looks like a sweet ride.
Thx for sharing so many details, will come handy for sure.

41

Foil SUP / Re: Axis Downwind Boards - inverse relationship of length/volume and width

« on: February 10, 2023, 10:04:50 AM »

This is the way i see it:

When the board rolls the rail sinks,center of buoyancy moves to low side and resists the roll.

Longer board= longer rail= more resistance to roll.

So you can make a longer board narrower without loosing roll stability.

This means nothing when your shape is a perfect cylinder because rolling does not move the center of buoyancy at all...and this Kalama designs are closer to a cylinder than a trad surfboard shape.

19' is narrowish even for a surfboard... would love to try a few of these DW boards to see what width i could handle in chop etc.
Probably closer to 25' even Xtralong 

42

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Hybrid boards

« on: February 01, 2023, 08:48:47 AM »

Some things to consider based on all the variations I’ve built and tested.

I have a 6’2 x 27.5 for SUP only. Used it a few times for light wind winging.
I have a 6’2 x 23.5 for SUP only. Used it a few times for light wind winging.
I have a 5’5 x 23.5 for winging only.
I have a 5’5 x 24.5 for winging only.

My old wing board was 5’0 x 28

All Kalama style boards.

In a back to back wave catching comparison, SUPing tiny knee high waves. I found the 27.5 caught more waves. LESS FALLING. Could be more aggressive positioning for the wave and paddling. What I found is, when you’re almost out of control balance wise paddling, this lack of control transfers to the entire flight on foil. Same results with my buddy doing the same comparison.

Winging my 5’5 x 23.5 wide versus 24.5 wide. The 23.5 is the winner for performance. BUT, I need to be able to put my hands on the deck and just stand up when the wind quits. My knees are shot.
I must avoid sailing on my knees at all cost, so 24.5 wide is my go to. Jacky and my buddy, love the 5’5 x 23.5 wide size. Better upwind, better pumping (better than a 4’10) , lighter. Much higher performance than short and wide boards.

188 lbs

Great info,do you have approximate volumes for these boards?.
Any pics?.
Thx

43

Foil SUP / Re: Weight Matters

« on: January 31, 2023, 09:24:44 AM »

I just sold a 5.0 wingfoil board because it felt too heavy.Lost about 30% of the money i paid for it new
Loved the shape,track placement, the build quality,the specs...but i could not get used to the bigger weight and the sluggish inertia it created.
On a digital scale the difference was a ridiculous  +700 grams compared to what i am used to riding.
Sounds like nothing but it completely changed the feel in any conditions, way less fun and responsive.
In light wind it really affects the bottom end.

44

Foil SUP / Re: Weight Matters

« on: January 25, 2023, 09:30:42 AM »

In some interview with Dave Kalama I remember him commenting on DW boards that were too light were more pitch sensitive, especially when dropping down the bigger steeper bumps.  In some ways, I find that to be true.  While playing with mast positions on my DW board, Having the mast far forward (less nose swing weight) the board becomes a bit more challenging to control, though easier to pump.  Having the mast more rearward, control becomes much easier.  I, myself, prefer to make boards as lightweight as possible. Again, compromise is always the sweet spot.

As  much as i like and respect Dave Kalama i think you should take that statement with a grain of salt.
He is selling hundreds of production boards and as DW said most customers mistreat high tech gear.
Kalama production boards are not specially light, his custom jobs weigh nothing...

45

Foil SUP / Re: Longer Fuselage for Stability and Pump

« on: January 10, 2023, 10:43:57 AM »

My nerdy side says putting the mast smack on top of the central part of the wing should have all sorts of nefarious consequences in drag ,increased stall speed etc.
This central bit of the wing is always creating lift at any speed fast or slow, any interference should matter.
But the guy in the vids (James A. Goulet) says it works fine and his V3 version is quite refined and well made.I tend to believe people that are selling nothing .