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Messages - Dontsink

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I think beginners would progress easier with a cockroach start from day one, it just makes winging in stronger wind,choppier water and smaller boards a lot easier.
A big advantage of narrower board designs is that they allow for a very painless cowboy to stinkbug (sit astride like a surfer and go to knees).
I wear a big kneebrace and have some hip arthrosis but on my 6' x18" i can cowboy start with no problem or pain.

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Hip Arthrosis...there is hope!
« on: September 06, 2023, 04:06:09 AM »
I started getting pains in March.Left groin radiating over top thigh muscle to top/inside knee.Reduced mobility really hurting my surf popup, making it impossible really.

Gave it rest,stretch,massages..nothing helped.
XRays and doctors said it was left hip athrosis,and that the right hip would start hurting soon too.

Options were the usual, painkiller/anti inflammatory pills, hialuronic acid infiltration or surgery .

None were very attractive to me.

So searching for alternatives i found this:

It is a commercial site but i have only used the free exercises shown from minute 04:00

Improvement was obvious in a week, one month into it  my popup is at 90% of what it was and surfoiling is fun again :) ,the pains in the morning or when getting out of the car are almost gone.I can live with this happily now.

So give it a try if you are in the same boat.
No infommercial, like i said i am only using the freebie exercises.

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: September 01, 2023, 10:13:51 AM »

Loving this board!.
I am finally getting some progress (and lots of fun) in this surfoiling thingy.

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 19, 2023, 02:08:16 PM »
Cutting big blocks is easier yes,  but everything has a price i think.
The bigger the "holes" the more compression,flex and torsion resistance you loose in the blank.
Cut some identical blocks of XPS ,chamber them in different sized holes and try flexing,twisting or standing on them.

For my "tests" the walls between adjoining cells became almost mushy at about 5mm thick so i used 8mm minimum between chambers (25mm diam cylinders) and 1.3mm minimum from chambers to skin.

But all this was hardly scientific testing, more like how it felt after some pottering about  with it.
So do your pottering and post please :)

The innegra works better over the carbon,from what i have read.But it was 150gr and i wanted to lam it first with the  aid of spray glue,it really makes it easier for me (inexperienced) to get the rails,nose and tail in place without unraveling or lots of creases.
The carbon was lighter and easier to lam normally.

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 18, 2023, 01:08:39 AM »
This is how fancy you could get with CNC & Hollow cores.
Not much info about this board but the hollowing is next level.

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 17, 2023, 11:08:43 PM »
1400g for drillium blank
400g for boxes, leash plug, gore vent. (why install a gore vent if the entire lamination can breath???)
1200 for the lamination - and you think you could take maybe 200g out of that

Thanks. I bet you could get a lot more out of that blank if it was CNC cut on the inside - maybe 2-300g more.

Freaking exciting that a 40L board could maybe get to 2.5kg

With chambers the Gore vent is a good idea i think.
Leave the board in the sun a few minutes and the air inside is going to expand...the chambers are sealed inside the blank so they will not breathe through lam pores and if they were  it is hard to predict how much out flow there would be.
Then the board would contract in the cold water and suck air inside through those pores...i prefer to install a Gore vent if you use chambers.And connect them.all.

But a guy on FB made his with chambers but forgot to connect them before lam (100l board with bigger chambers).No vent and no issues so far he reported.Maybe it is not necessary as you say.

For 40ltrs i do not think i could go much lighter, a bit under 3kg but not 2.5.

For 70-80ltr wingfoil the goal is 4 to 4.5 kg.
Custom EPS boards are 5 to 5.5 so waterproof core and 1kg lighter woukd be very good.

More pics than you ever want to see of the build here :

This EPS mod might be worth experimenting with,looks very promising:

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 17, 2023, 02:14:30 PM »
Did you weight during the process?  I'm wondering how much of the total weight is the hollowed out blank, boxes, stringers, and carbon tubes versus how much is the external lamination?

Yes i did, that was kinda depressing after all that work :).
The holes took the blank from 1600gr to 1400gr , 200gr duh!.

Sounds ridiculous i know...but still it was 15% of the blank weight. Every gram counts.

With a bigger volume board you can take a bigger percentage out leaving the same margins to the skin and of course the total will be bigger anyway. Maybe saving 500gr for 80ltr board is possible i think.

I think the foilbox is very light.
It added 400gr before bottom lam but that includes glassing in the leash plug and Gore vent.So maybe 350gr?.

Another factor is the Spread Tow carbon,it sucks very little resin.

And of course not levelling,hotcoating etc...

I think next one will have lighter layup on bottom for sure(180 to 200gr?), on top the same.

** Of course if yo go CNC you can save even more on the blank...hexagon chambers and more even distance to skin.

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 17, 2023, 11:20:34 AM »
3 KG is fantastic.  I was surprised it was so light given all the carbon.  Great Job!

I was just yammering with Kyle Pemberton about board designs.  People keep talking about foiling being a game of inches, and millimeters and just incremental improvements. NO WAY!

When a production SUP Foil board weighs more than 15 lbs it is either 1) For Aesthetics 2) Over Engineered 3) Badly Engineered or all 3.  A 120 liter board can be made between 10 and 12 lbs. 

Foil boards require a formidable deck and box structure, but otherwise the periphery should be light and potentially sacrificial. 

Keep us posted on those Cores.  There is some risk of water intrusion.

You and many others here have been my inspiration :)
A big crash would get water in the hollows, at many points it is only 1.3cm foam.
The chambers are all connected for pressure venting and (hopefully) water evacuation if it comes to that.
Would need to drill the nose chamber open and open the valve at the tail, then gravity or force air through.

I tried lots of ideas on this one, many copied from you guys.

The overengineered foilbox is an attemp to remove loads from the foam (will mush out eventually) and  the flat bottom carbon lam in front of the foilboxes (flat carbon is not great in compression).

The Shape Shack / Re: XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 17, 2023, 11:07:26 AM »
this is incredible!  Thank you for posting the build details.  3kg is awesome.  The Beasho innovation of ignoring pinholes and letting the lamination "breath" is really enabling some interesting builds.

I have been wondering how long until we see barracuda style prone boards.  Any downsides?

Well, it is 6 feet long so you have to get used to the nose touching down at a shallower angle than what you are used to.

But i am very happy (and surprised :)  ) with how it rides overall.

My conditions (Atlantic beachbreak ,bumpy,closeout,lots of  paddling) have made my surfoil progression really frustrating.Catching lots of waves and getting in the open face early to ride or pump out is key and this board makes it a lot easier.

The Shape Shack / XPS Surfoil Build 6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
« on: August 16, 2023, 03:24:58 AM »
My first full board build!
Just surfoiled it this morning and it did not self destroy, to my relief :)
Paddles great and feels very nimble for a 6 footer.

Winged it in very fluky,light wind and it was incredibly stable vs a 5 footer of the same vol.The lenght really settles it down plus it allows for a very easy Cowboy to Stinkbug start.

-6 x 18 x 40ltr x 3kg
XPS blank with chambers
Bottom 205 gr + 80 gr/m2 carbon + Usual foil box patches
Top Carbon/Innegra 150gr + 100gr Carbon + standing area 200gr Innegra
Futures foil boxes with flanges removed.
2 Carbon tube (1cm diam /1mm wall) stringers on bottom  connected to boxes.
8 vertical Carbon tubes (25mm diam/1mm wall) from deck to boxes.
4 Carbon "strings" (about 3mm) tying deck to boxes.
No HD foam.
Vac bagged at 4-7InHg.

No hotcoats,spackle or filler...add my sinful hands and dubious techniques and she looks really,really fugly up close.

But i am happy with the shape,function and weight.I think i can go even lighter on the next one, a 75ltr wing board.

My previous surfoil board, a Gong Matata 5.0 was a very slow paddler, short and wide plus the kicktail took away a lot of effective waterline.

This one feels really effortless in comparison.
A 6 footer is a 6 footer,no miracles, but the narrow width and straight narrow tail really make it glide.

This one is by our local board manufacture, Carbonco. Mitch the owner of the business is really progressive with his shapes, has been building longer narrower boards for 2 seasons now. This one has no carbon in it, Innegra and S glass, I wanted a tough light board rather than a brittle one.

Carbonless CarbonCo? :)

Do you know the layup?
I have used innegra on a dockstart and on a surfoil board and i like it a lot.But never tried it with glass and no carbon.
Does the board feel any less stiff or responsive?.

4.1 kg (weighed with a luggage scale, so assume a little margin of error).  Almost exactly the same as my 49 Apple slice v2 with several repairs on it. Slice has foot strap inserts which add some weight too although the skipper has the new longer tracks.

Is this correct??
4.1 kg for an 80liter XPS foam board is a super ultralight build.
Even 5kg would be pretty light.
My Appleslice V2 80liter was 6.1 kg...

Have they completely changed their tech?

Hi B-Walnut.Nice review.

I ride Takuma Kujiras (v1 980 for wing and 1095 for surfoil).

Are the Clouds Fs good at pumping when surfoiling?

I am 70kg/154lbs and was considering the 850 for everyday winging and 1000 or 1150 for surfoil (i ride mostly small waves).

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board II SUP Foil Bumblebee
« on: August 07, 2023, 04:52:41 AM »
I think the point was that kevlar absorbs water but innegra does not.
Innegra has excellent impact resistance  and is probably the lightest fiber out there.

If i was going to use minimal amounts of resin (or GGlue as i think Beasho is using) i would definitely go for a waterproof material.
Water is very dense and even a little amount seeping into the Kevlar fibers during the sesh will add weight.

Foil SUP / Re: Freefoil Pump Forever: Latest High Aspect Solution
« on: July 09, 2023, 09:48:36 PM »
It's amazing!  An excellent alternate to the truss wing designs.

I was wondering how your Falcon foil could integrate into a twin mast design with the masts acting as endplates  ,it could be an option to consider down the road :)

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