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Messages - jondrums

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1
Foil SUP / Re: Sup shape
« on: Today at 01:55:06 PM »
I think you have the angle of the deck wrong unfortunately.  The angle you need to drain water is the opposite of the angle you should have for a comfortable takeoff and flying (in my opinion).  I think you essentially want a few degrees of pitch up in the foil and the bottom contour when the standing deck is level.  What you've got is foil pitched down when the deck is level.  Interested to hear other opinions as well.

2
Foil SUP / Re: Sup shape
« on: June 05, 2020, 10:19:21 AM »
look closely at the side view of the Kalama boards.  I think you'll see the deckline is at a slight angle to the flat part of the bottom where the foil mounts.  I think this is a key feature when I think about why it is that way, but to be honest, all the boards I've ridden have decks that are parallel to the foil mounting surface.

3
Foil SUP / Re: Sup shape
« on: June 05, 2020, 10:17:42 AM »
yeah, ditch the hollow deck.  I have a board with a hollow deck, and you are NOT going to like it for downwinding and flatwater starts.  It takes a few moments to clear the water off the deck, in the meantime you have A LOT of weight on there.  It'll keep you in the water just a little longer.  Its totally fine in the right conditions, and I'm guessing would be fine on a wing because as soon as you get any speed the water washes out the back.  But for catching a downwind type wave, you can't get enough speed to clear the deck until you're running down the swell, but that's the moment you need to pop out of the water.  I think I've seen at least one homebuilt foilSUP on this board with a scooped deck, so there should be some other opinions worth considering.

4
Foil SUP / Re: Learning to foil surf - catching waves
« on: June 04, 2020, 10:30:54 PM »
you on prone or SUP? 

1. Sounds like you have too much tail downforce.  Couple of solutions, reduce the pitch with shims so it isn't pitching up so much, or go with a smaller tail, or go with a shorter fuse.  You should absolutely be able to keep the board in the water with just a bit of forward pressure.  Generally, yes, you need to suck it up and get used to pressing down on the front foot to make the drop.

2. Assuming SUP, generally, big/fast/hollow takeoffs don't work.  The board takes too long to get up to speed to catch them late and usually the wave is standing up too quickly to catch them early.  At 1-2ft I think you'd be fine. You really need to go straight down the face until you're up on foil, then do your bottom turn in the flats.  You can't take off diagonally like a shortboard and cut across the face, the foil just doesn't work at that angle.  It will end very poorly, I've almost landed right on the foil several times trying to nail late takeoffs in hollow surf before I learned my lesson on that one.

3. You should be able to catch non-breaking waves on a sup at many breaks.  But a lot of this depends on the speed of the wave.  for long period open ocean breaks, it is going to be fairly difficult.  The wave is moving too fast for most paddlers.  You need at least a little white-water showing to get in.  If the wave is wrapping around a point or otherwise getting slowed down before it stands up you can get in early (before even the best longboard paddlers).    The technique is to get into surf stance but with your back foot a bit more forward and get some speed before the wave gets to you.  On the face, do an aggressive pumping motion with each paddle stroke.  You almost unweight and shove the board forward at the same time with your feet.  If the board rears up, you have to get on the front foot and it'll shoot off into the wave like a rocket.  I've caught waves after they passed under me believe it or not - sometimes you can get up on the foil literally behind the peak on the back of the wave and give it a good pump and jump right over the top into the face of the wave!   You'll get better at it is the bottom line

5
Foil SUP / Re: Sup shape
« on: June 04, 2020, 03:28:40 PM »
Everything I've learned riding a few different shapes is that the ideal profile is a rectangle - but that if anyone made a board like this it wouldn't sell.  Style is a powerful thing and people want shapes that please their eye.    A lot of these nice looking shapes do their best to mimic traditional surfboards with the pulled in nose and tail.  I personally think that's detrimental.  I think you want the smallest and shortest board possible to keep weight and swing weight down, but it has to be stable enough to stand on, paddle, and catch waves.  The way to get stability in such a short package is not only width, but carrying that width all the way to the tip and tail.  There is really no downside that I see to having width in the tip.  The tail only needs to be pulled in enough to keep it from touching down in really radical/leaned over turns.  Welcome to the Kalama shape, which in my opinion is about as good as it gets (not having ridden a Kalama). 

6
Foil SUP / Re: Go Foil P180
« on: June 04, 2020, 03:19:28 PM »
sorry, my image went away for some reason, try again

7
Foil SUP / Re: Go Foil P180
« on: June 03, 2020, 06:26:36 PM »
another picture from insta seems to suggest it is even less chord than the GL180.  This is one seriously high aspect wing!

8
The Shape Shack / Re: Building for durability
« on: May 29, 2020, 06:46:21 PM »
I know Dwight is on here and I certainly don't want to start any ill will, but I haven't personally found that to be true (on my dwight board) in the long run.   It was great for a long time, but many sessions in after lots of inadvertent paddle strikes, the innegra seems to have a propensity for pinholes.  I patched a lot of spots and rebuilt the nose a few times.   Most of my boards that get a lot of use end up with patches, so I'm not disappointed in the least. Probably Dwight has improved the glassing process quite a bit over the years since mine was made and overall I have been super happy with mine.  But it isn't the most durable board I have owned.

9
Foil SUP / Re: Front foot strap angle for foil board
« on: May 25, 2020, 02:14:03 PM »
wait, where can I see this???  fin boxes for footstraps - why didn't I think of that?

10
Foil SUP / Re: Go Foil P180
« on: May 25, 2020, 02:12:46 PM »
yeah, I meant to say higher aspect, too late to edit my post

11
thanks surfafrica, I like the idea of adding something other than carbon in the layup for more durability.  I was looking for a carbon innegra paddle head but didn't find one.

I will say that dockstart pumping practice with a little prone board has transformed my SUP foil surfing, specifically pumping.  Now that I'm back in the ocean, I've been kicking out of waves and pumping back to the next a few times a session when previously it was only when every possible variable was perfect.  Pumping is absolutely a learned thing that takes a lot of practice (and failure) to get good at.

12
thanks for the thoughtful replies.  agreed we should feel free to discuss as deeply and theoretically as we wish and anyone who doesn't like it can ignore it :)  No offense taken nor intended.

I saw that link, thanks for that.  I think I mentioned the same in my last reply that in practice with a long slow turn in a low performance airplane, it just isn't really a factor.  But on a high performance (low drag) foil with a short turning radius, I can usually carry a lot of speed through the turn.  So, if I'm going into the wind, I don't have as much ground speed to carry through the turn and by the time I'm through the turn I'm going too slow.  When I'm up and going downwind I've got a lot of ground speed, and I can carry it through the turn - even while I lose some speed in the turn to drag, I come out of it still on foil with enough speed to keep going.  So its a very real thing for foiling, and in a plane with enough performance, it can be a real thing there too.

13
Foil SUP / Re: Go Foil P180
« on: May 24, 2020, 04:17:01 PM »
looks like a lower aspect ratio GL240, but also much thinner foil profile.  Kind of like the 180 is a lower aspect version of the 210 (same span)

14
Random / Re: Google map of my secret Baja Spot
« on: May 21, 2020, 05:02:05 PM »
must be google's fault.
The original link opened up fine for me in an incognito browser window, but not in a regular window.

15
Random / Re: Google map of my secret Baja Spot
« on: May 21, 2020, 01:11:02 PM »
yup, that's the spot.  Incredible place.  I could tell some pretty good stories from going there for years.  We quit going down 10 years ago when it became unsafe to travel the main road.  The locals in Baja are so sweet that I couldn't imagine it, but a fellow windsurfer was held hostage while they extorted his family for money back in the US.  Nobody got hurt, but that was the end of that.  Has it improved again?  One year a buddy of mine flew his plane down there, but I never thought about that since there would have been no good way to get all the windsurfing gear in the plane.  This post has me thinking again about hitching a plane ride down there with a wing and a sleeping bag...

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