Messages

466

Flatwater and Touring / Re: Fall Touring Gear For The Northeast

« on: October 17, 2012, 07:13:55 PM »

I got some Icebeaker merino wool base layer long sleeves and some briefs.  Fell in the other day and was surprised how warm I was in the wet woolies once I got out.  Conditions were ~15 C.  Got em on sale but I would pay double gladly.  Bonus - don't smell too badly unlike my technical fabrics. 

467

Flatwater and Touring / Re: Submarine collsion=total bummer

« on: October 17, 2012, 07:05:10 PM »

Its scary how quickly plans have to be altered for changing conditions and breakdowns.  On our sailboat we have multiple redundancies and take it for granted.  Its also complicated and heavy.  SUP's are relatively simple and light by desire and necessity. That improves performance, but in a narrow range. 

I am still fiddling with getting kitted out and was trying a water bottle in a new way.  It promptly went overboard but I didn't want it to ruin the session.  By the end I was scary dehydrated.  Won't do that again, and I'll strap extra water on deck.  I'm trying to think of what else I need to self rescue, particularly for winter.  I wear a dinghy-style lifevest, carry a whistle and some sugary goodies. 

With the Kahalo, what could you do to improve the finbox?  Might make sense to put watertight bulkheads in the bow and stern.  Or inflate some airbags inside. 

Is the interior finished with epoxy or varnish?  If not, you may need to force air in there too to move the moisture out. 

468

Random / Should I Buy It?

« on: October 11, 2012, 10:45:01 PM »

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/spo/3320807253.html

Someone please post the picture and caption.  My brain exploded when I saw it so I'm too busy cleaning up the pieces.

469

Gear Talk / Re: The Jennifer Lopez of sup boards.

« on: October 09, 2012, 09:22:40 AM »

I’m not saying it should be this way or that, just throwing some thoughts out there for discussion.

Apologies here - I was just left-over cranky from another post.  Some of us here don't surf (how many?) and get excited when naval architects get involved in board design because displacement boards will get better.  Just like how sailboats are getting exciting with widespread adoption of planing hulls. 

I'm also wondering about classes. A local rep just told me everyone is going 12-6, and that 14's are no good for many reasons.  Exact opposite of the impression I got from reading the Zone.  I trust the Zone more than sales guys. 

470

Gear Talk / Re: The Jennifer Lopez of sup boards.

« on: October 08, 2012, 09:00:41 AM »

Geez. At what point does an S U P become a B O A T that you stand up in?

1) Boards are boats. Increasingly so as SUP shapers look to yacht design for increased displacement speed and stability
2) Boats are boards. Increasingly so in sailboat design as (big) planing hulls become commonplace. 

471

Downwind and Racing / Re: ULtimate custom distance/race board?

« on: October 07, 2012, 08:10:52 PM »

...this will be focused on distance paddling.

Why not have a plumb or wave piercing bow to max the waterline to the full length of board, ie the keel-line continues with zero rocker all the way forward. 

472

SUP General / Re: Any thought to creating regional sub forums?

« on: September 27, 2012, 05:26:13 PM »

like that idea, couple sub region for the states, then canada and out of state section.

"Canada" as a region doesn't work for meetups.  Vancouver to Seattle or Portland works - Van could care less what Toronto is doing (and I suppose vice versa). 

473

The Shape Shack / Re: one more foam question

« on: September 23, 2012, 05:12:20 PM »

TeeJay, that board is sick.  But is it only 8'?  I'm interested in some kind of downwinder, maybe 14' or so, but that means gluing up length too.

It is a 12'6"  - With a full 8' long sheet paired with one cut off at 5' then reverse the seam each layer = 13' and cut down from there.

Teejay - can you post more details / pics of that build?  It looks awesome.  Maybe in another thread?

474

The Shape Shack / Re: one more foam question

« on: September 23, 2012, 05:10:38 PM »

I was going to suggest using the shaped foam as a male mold and build up the board around it, then cut it in two and release the lay-up from the form.  Lay in half-round composite stringers and bond the two pieces back together.  If carefully done, the form could be re-used.   

But maybe TWsup had this in mind:  Use the CNC machine to form the outer shape AND scoop out the insides.  Then the four pieces could be re-assembled to form a hollow foam blank as if it were an egg cut in quarters then its shell miraculously put back together again.  Then do a layup as if for a hollow board ie with core sandwiched between fibres.

Get the CNC to route-in half-round grooves where we want stringers to be, then lay up the fibres there first ie before the hull and deck. 

Vacuum bagging this would be a problem unless air pressure could be gently increased in the middle - a big lightweight air bladder?

475

The Shape Shack / Re: Vacuum bagging benefits.

« on: September 10, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »

I don't bother bagging anymore. Except when I do a board that will be windsurfed. On those I want max toughness, so I bag.

DW, big appreciation of your experience from me. 

Sorry, don't follow.  How does vac-bagging make for max toughness where pre-pregging doesn't?  Don't we always want toughness or is there a trade-off?  The trade-off must be time or consumables cost as it isn't weight or looks.

With the minimally wet pre-preg method, do you not risk more bubbles and voids? 

Bagging consolidates the layers better then you can do without it.  That consolation makes for a stronger panel for a given thickness because there is less resin making up that thickness, and resin does not give you strength or ruggedness, all it does, and should be asked to do is to stick the fibers together.

Prepreg has so little resin in it, that if you use multiple layers, you pretty have to bag it.  Pregreg is the "gold standard" because of its low resin:fiber ratio and the quality of the resin that can not be achieved with room temperature catalyzing resins.  (actually prepreg does partially catalyze at room temperature but it takes months).  One of the rules of thumb with epoxy is the longer it takes to set the stronger it is.  Prepreg's resin is so slow, you have to heat it to like 150C to get it to set in less then a few months.   

Oops, sorta made a leap by labeling DW's "2nd way" as "pre-preg".   It sounds like a basic form of the pre-preg method.  I see his goal is to reduce weight economically.  If I can presume to extend his windsurfing-max-toughness line using your post, bagging would consolidate the fibres even more, although at a price he can't justify for a SUP but can for a sailboard. 

476

The Shape Shack / Re: Vacuum bagging benefits.

« on: September 09, 2012, 02:41:04 PM »

I don't bother bagging anymore. Except when I do a board that will be windsurfed. On those I want max toughness, so I bag.

DW, big appreciation of your experience from me. 

Sorry, don't follow.  How does vac-bagging make for max toughness where pre-pregging doesn't?  Don't we always want toughness or is there a trade-off?  The trade-off must be time or consumables cost as it isn't weight or looks.

With the minimally wet pre-preg method, do you not risk more bubbles and voids? 

477

Travel, Trips, Destinations / Re: WANTED: Ideas to build locking storage box for SUP's for top of motorhome please

« on: September 09, 2012, 01:28:53 PM »

Just throwing out some thoughts here:

Big cruising yachts often have fibreglass deck boxes and also similar boxes on docks.  Perhaps check out some docks for manufacturer names as they are often from local shops.  Then get a custom set built. 

Fishboat builders for aluminum boxes?  Who makes those tool boxes on pick-up trucks?

Make them oversize for when you get bigger boards.

Make the internal supports adjustable/removable for versatility.

Leave room for paddles and stinky wet suit booties? 

Consider air vents and drain holes.  You might want some sort of drain system so salt and sand don't remain on the vehicle.

Make them have a reflective top or at least white colour so they don't heat up as much.

Could more than the top fold over?  That way access might be easier and accommodate oversize gear.

Internal tie down points?  You don't want stuff bouncing around even if the lid is closed. 

I have no idea what a Class C motorhome is, but I assume its tall.  Will the boxes' height dimension be a concern for going under things like overpasses, garages, trees?

478

The Shape Shack / Re: Need advice for EPS foam

« on: July 27, 2012, 08:14:25 AM »

Here's my $0.02 CDN

http://www.plastifab.com/contact_us/contact_us.html has a Winnipeg office.  They make any thickness blocks of EPS in different grades and weights. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/dirkwestphal1 has a series of entertaining videos.  His deadpan... is worth way more than you'll spend on the videos.   

http://www.fibertek.ca/ - there's got to be a store like this in Wpg.  I learn tons every time I drop in.  And now I spend tons of money there too. 

I very much like this thread.  The zone needs this thread to continue for guys like Wpg and me to learn to build big boards, and to make us realize that buying is probably cheaper.  There is also a lot of bad advice out there, so the zone has this chance to set the stage to become the go-to place on SUP construction.  Mind you, watch enough crappy videos on laminating stuff and one learns from others' misconceptions...

Summary of what I have learned so far:

1) Building paddles (done 1, planning 3) and boards (done 0, planning 4) is extremely satisfying and an antidote to my desk job.

2) Buying used equipment is the most economic way to get on the water.   

I'm a huge fan of Craigslist windsurfers ($35 max) as a starting point for boards.  So much can be learned from their peculiarities.  And who knew that a centreboard, essential for staying upright on a round-bilged 27" wide 12' BIC, would be reinvented as a torque fin so many years later? 

Suggestion: How about using a rocker-table to keep the rocker set in a stringerless blank while the deck lay-up cures?  How about zero rocker for a flatwater board?

479

SUP General / Re: What does your SUP carrying vehicle look like...?

« on: June 28, 2012, 12:06:22 AM »

Besides an old Volvo 240 with basic Thule bars and an old jib sheet tie down, this is my other ride.  A 1974 C&C 35 MkII.  It easily carries kayaks and and boards on the foredeck.  Its one of my favourite things to get up early in a quiet anchorage and go paddling for a couple hours until everyone else sleeps.  Desolation Sound is stunning. 

480

The Shape Shack / Re: Opinions wanted -Divinycell to stiffen a race board vs. carbon

« on: June 24, 2012, 10:07:22 AM »

If you think of a longitudinal cross section of the deck as a beam, the thicker the beam, the stiffer by power of 2, so twice as thick, 4x as stiff.  A sandwich is just going to be stiffer with pretty much anything that robust enough to keep the upper and lower plates separated.  With standard layups, the beam is just not thick enough for any real stiffness  

I get it now.  My previous conclusion from internet learning was that standard layups of 3 layers on deck and 2 layers on bottom around the foam core was enough of a beam to do the job.  What I just said works for the whole board, but something more is needed for where feet hit the deck.   A thin beam is formed to withstand the point loads in the standing area and it also becomes part of a bigger beam that is the board. 

The more I learn about board construction, the more I am inclined to NOT build one.  Buy from an expert instead.   

Sidebar - OK, got the quote methodology down - type under the quote tags, hit preview to check before posting.  I'm learning lots this weekend.