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Messages - Fishman

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Cowboy, I think you might regret selling your setup without at least trying the T's. It must be nice to have a used market like California does. I look at your SoCal craigslist stuff and get jealous.

Califoilia, Thanks for catching that, I copied and pasted with the intent to fix those Axis AR ratios but forgot. Edit timed me out.

Solent Foiler, thx for your insite. It would be interesting to compare the LT to the 999 or the 888 and the MT.  That 0.3 volume on the ST seems like a kite only option, or maybe a big wave thing, who knows. To bad these things cost money, LOL.

Fluid LS is 1,080cm / liter (1124 / 1.04)
Fluid LT is 1,313cm / liter (1235cm / 0.94)
ART 999 is 1,193cm liter (1038cm / 0.871)

Just food for thought stuff. If the main appeal of the high AR wings is the glide. Which is mainly due to lower "drag to lift" relationship. Then which is the bigger cause of drag? The cord of the wing, or the volume of the wing?

In aircraft this is kind of settled with guiders and their small cords, But I've never seen a plane with a concave underside of a wing. Flaps extended is the closest thing in aviation, and that doesn't seem the same as what Patrice did here. Both flaps/concave and the glider wing span do compromise speed. And since we want speed, and glide, and maneuverability... Certainly interesting how things progress. Can't help but wonder how many more ways are they going to come I with to get me to happily spend more of my money on this addiction, LOL.

Hi Cowboy, One guy mentioned the new v2 100cm carbon mast and aluminum fuse together weights 3300 grams. The v2 mono block was 2800 grams.  I don't remember the weight on their shorter carbon mast.
I hear they'll also have a Pro fuse at some point in the future.

These fluid wing all came in light in weight. Unlike the veloce with the heavy first run thing.

I'm playing around with tails and lately I like the smaller X-over. But I'm 6'4" and like the feedback and extra length is just a little more comfort like training wheels but you can still crank it hard when you want. And still playing with the small surf and 45 kite/fast. But with the Fluids wings it will take some time to figure what works best for me. Id like to get some other stabs but the next shipment isn't till February...

I think Christian (Solent foiler) is you size. He like his Fluid LS and his Axis 999. I imagine he will pick up a MT or LT if he hasn't done so already. He has tried a lot of gear so I'm looking to his or David thoughts are on these Tall Fluids.

Gong released their Fluid "HA" wing called the Fluid "Tall". It's not rally a HA compared to most brand's with Ratios in the 9:1 area. So seeing that these Fluid Tall's hover below 6:1 AR was not really what I expected when last summer Gong said they had a HA ratio wing in the works.
But a closer look shows a different kind of High Ratio that may be the key to what makes these "TALL" wings something really special, in a deferent kind of way.
Not high Span to Cord ratio, but high Area to Volume ratio. Yep a super thin wing that still has lift.

I just received a couple of Gong Fluid Tall version wings. And yeah they have some real wow Factor to them.  The thing that strikes me, is how thin they are, especially the trailing edge. Really impressive to look at. So much so my family was thinking I "went over the edge", as I had the XLT wing on the couch next to me most of Christmas day. I even passed it around pointing out the concave section, as if a non foil geek would be as impressed as I was, LOL.  First impression riding this wing from this novice winger, is they do fly as good as they look. Fluid is the perfect name for this wing as that's probably the best word to describe how it flys.

I think the magic in this wing come from the "HOLLOW" as Patrice would say. It's the concave under-side that takes up the rear 1/3 of the wing bottom. It's hard to imagine that the hollow section would create any additional lift for the cord,  but do i'd think it adds to the AOA and direction of flow which in a unconventional way adds to the lift. (I don't know this, just guessing about how this all works) I don't know if anyone else is doing this concave underside, or if Patrice came up with this on his own, but ether way I think it's very clever and out of the box thinking. I thought this wing's "hollow" would compromise some lift, but after using it, the lift is not a problem at all. It's really more lift than i expected from such a thin wing, and I even had to move the foil back in the tracks to get things right. I will be ordering the smaller sizes to see how small I can go with these wings.

If you look at the smaller Fluid MT, it has 950cm area, it's 12mm thick, and only has 0.6 litters of volume.  Next to a real High Aspect ratio wing like Axis 899 that has a area of 850cm and a volume of 0.69 liters you see just how thin these Fluid Tall's really are.  For comparison here are some Area per volume number.

Gong Fluid XXLT = 1,065cm per liter (1907cm area / 1.79 liters of Volume) AR-5.82
Gong Fluid XLT   = 1,196cm per liter (1555cm / 1.3) AR-5.84 ----- 1.6mm thick
Gong Fluid LT     = 1,313cm per liter (1235cm / 0.94) AR-5.89 ----- 1.4 cm thick
Gong Fluid MT   = 1,583cm per liter (959cm / 0.6) AR-5,90  ----- 1.2cm thick
Gong Fluid ST    = 2,157cm per liter (712cm / 0.33) AR-5.97    ----- 9mm thick!!!

Axis PNG 1300 = 903cm per liter (1712cm / 1.895) AR-9.94
Axis PNG 1150 = 840cm per liter (1778cm / 2.116) AR-9.94
Axis ART 999   = 1,193cm per liter (1038cm / 0.871)  AR-9
Axis ART 888   = 1,231cm per liter (850cm / 0.69)  AR-9
Axis ART 777   = 1,389cm per liter (730cm / .0.54)  AR-9

  I know ratios like these don't mean all that much, but I do think it is another piece of the puzzle that  contributes to what makes a good and efficient wing.
Anyway Bravo to the Gong team. Now get some LT''s back in stock so I can get that one too.


On the 3 bigger boards I rode i wouldn't have even got flight if MY foil /mast was all the way back. Maybe in very strong wind it could have worked but in our normal wind, no way.

On the 115 liter  6'7" Starboard I've been riding lately, I have the mast all the way forward and my front foot is still 3" behind the front strap. My 5'1" would have been ok all the way back but not the others.

I had to mod my base plate to get the mast forward enough to find the best spot.(IMO the foil boxes were to far back to begin with on those boards.

The balancing the board helped me realize that my foil had to be all the way forward with those big board.

This thread turned out to be more helpful than I realized.
A couple of weeks ago I switched up some foil gear. At one point I found myself repeatedly falling right after getting on foil. I even turned the board over to examine the foil for maybe something loose but it all was tight. But I think moving the foil toward might have helped a little also.

I mainly use a X-Over stab, 85cm mast and a Gong curve XLT. That time I switched to L Fluid stab, curve LT and A 95cm mast when this falling was happening. My solution at the time was to go a good bit further down wind before cutting upwind and not turning as hard. In hindsight I think this ventilating issue was what was really happening. I think the flatter stab was letting me Yaw were the X- Over stab with its vertical tips... would have minimized my Yaw.
 Now that I have the Yaw factor in mind it should help me get a little better at foiling :)

Hey Christian do you have any photos of your mast's-es-s mods?

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Reedin Super wing
« on: December 08, 2021, 04:18:29 PM »
I am a newbie to wing foiling, and obviously need as much time on the foil to progress.  I currently only have a 5M Naish Matador    and have trouble getting on foil on less than 18 mph winds.  We often have 12-15 mph winds, so I would like a 6M wing to help me use those conditions. I have been debating the OR Glide,  and the new Reedin X as options.  Does anyone have an opinion as to which might best suit my needs?  I do foil in an area with boat traffic so the visibility in the new Reedin is appealing.  Thoughts?
If i wanted a new wing for light wind right now, it would be a CWC 8m, or a OR6 Gluide (A if you good at pumping onto foil).
It would be nice to hear from someone whos tried both of those. I don't think the Reedin X is going to be a "light wind" wing.
The CWC will just pull you on foil at times which is a nice plus in my book, I've only tried the CWC 7m but i don't see the 8m being any more trouble, but then again i'm 6'4".

I've settled on neoprene mittens(NRS).  They are the only hand gear that will keep my fingers warm here in Maine.  Using a boom becomes even more critical since grabbing handles with mitts is a fair bit more awkward.  Even the thinner mitts are warmer than the thicker gloves.

I've settled on those as well. Didn't have an opportunity to try it yet but they sure feel awkward. a friend sold me his Kokatat 2mm mittens, These are really good. could not find it anywhere.
I'm interested in your opinion on those to mittens. I really like my kokatat mittens (one size larger than normal) but they have some room for improvement.

I lost one of my Ride engine gloves and I found it impossible to find a good comparables replacement without shopping over seas for a size  large. Those Ride Engine's were about perfect.

Many might not admit it or care but a small part of why some people go with certain brands could be aesthetics. Coming into the sport knowing nothing, I didn't have much to go on other than what the stuff looked like on the internet. Even though the Go Foils had a great reputation, the blue foil wings looked like cheap plastic. The black and yellow colors of the Naish foils didn't turn me on either. Nor did I like the colors of the Naish wings.

The Axis stuff looks awesome and the website is really well done. The foil shapes made sense to me and I like the detailed info on everything. The Zone reviews had nothing but good things to say about the brand, so that's what I went with. No regrets so far.

So true,  I like to tell myself that color isn't important as long as the value is there... But the reality I was very glad to get rid of some super loud neon green gear I had. Now even if they fixed their performance Issues, thier tacky colors certainly will make me a reluctant purchaser going forward.

Your other point on lack of details on manufacturers web site has been a deal killer for me. Funny how so many manufacturer still have next to no details on their web sites. At one point Go Foil was the hot wing to have, but had next to zero details and even new gear was non existent on thier site. As a internet shopper you almost felt as if they didn't care if you buy there gear or not. Not trying to bash GF but the contrast between them and the Axis site was just night and day. The Axis approach certainly keeps me going to there site and keeps thier products on my mind and when it's time for me to change gear I'll definitely be shopping thier products.

3 questions:

1. @165lbs (mostly on lakes) should I get the 7m or 8m?
I have a 5m and it works perfectly if there is wind, but we have a lot of marginal days and gusty days where the gusts are just not enough for the 5m.

2. has anybody tried the 7m Takoon and the 7m CWC and could compare?

3. does anybody know what OR will be doing with their 7m?

2. The CWC 7m is bigger than my 1st gen Takoon but not quite as big as the Slick 7m.. The Takoon 7m is more like a 6-6.5 in comparison. I only tried the CWC for just a short time but it had more low end for sure. It seemed to go upwind a little better. Over all just had a smoothness to it which was nice. I'm not a fan of the handles on the CWC but maybe with time I could get use to them.  I'd imagine if I were to get the 8 CWC Which would be handy for sure, I'd want to make a boom for it.
Personally at my very novice stage, and being on a lake, I prefer my Slick 7m over the CWC 7. YMMV.


This was submitted as an example of the issue by an experienced rider... Watch the wake of the foil closely and you'll see the sideways movement of the mast just before the incidents...
I don't know which mast you use (or it's profile) but I wonder if you have experienced this with the Gong V2 aluminium mast?

 The newer V2 has a greater teardrop profile and I was curious as to why they changed from the old more symmetrical shape like the V1 and Axis mast have. After reading this I thinking this could be the answer

I would think the more teardrop shape would be less likely to aerate/ventilate if that is really what's happening.


Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: protection gear
« on: October 30, 2021, 07:50:57 AM »
One reason I wear a helmet is the color. Sounds strange but it may be a bit location dependant, and partially my own phobia of being hit by a boater.

On our busy lake the contrast in color so a boater can better see me in less than optimal overcast conditions gives me some peace of mind. If you ever have a wing blow out in middle of a big piece of water the a little color of orange, white or yellow can make you a LOT easier to spot. I guess my fear comes mainly from spending many hours looking for people in the water. Sometimes it's a bit like finding a needle in a hay stack, and that's when your actually looking for them.

I think the hard 90 in the Slick's leading edge doesn't help with the wrinkles ether.

I like the yard stick idea.  Maybe a 10' stick of PVC (sanded a little) might make it even easier.

Good info.
I didn't realize that pinholes was a problem.
I finally noticed it in my Duotone7m  because one day I left it inflated for a long time and it went completely flat.

I patched one hole that was obvious. Went out In a short session last week and it went from 6psi, to 3.7. Pulled the bladder out again and it need more pressure to find the other 3 pinholes. Wasn't very confident about how much air to put in the unsupported bladder to find those pinholes fear of stretching it out to much...

Now I'm going to order more patch stuff and check my other wings which I'm sure at least one of them also has a pinhole or two. Pinhole lesson learned .

I know people say installing the bladder is easy, but I seem to always see a twist or 2 in my 7m after the install when inflating. I find myself messaging,  repeating inflation/deflation, and reinstalling, until after a hour or more it's good enough. It never seems to look perfect. The bladder just seems bigger than it needs to be for the wing.

Classifieds / Re: Foil board - Takoon Comet SW 51 100 liters
« on: October 07, 2021, 01:06:52 PM »
Payment sent  :)

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